Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
MotorcyclesHarleyYamahaSportbikesRacingOff-roadSnowmobilesTechnical
Country Specific
Australian GroupUK GroupClassic (UK Group)
Related Topics
CarsBoatsMore Topics ...

Motorcycle Forum / Country Specific / Australian Group / September 2008



Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Radial  mounted front calipers?

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
CrazyCam - 27 Sep 2008 00:53 GMT
Hi folks.

I notice that it seems very fashionable at the moment, for bike makers
to use radially mounted front brake calipers.

Is there some good reason for it, and, if so, what is it?

    regards,
        CrazyCam
Knobdoodle - 27 Sep 2008 01:42 GMT
> Hi folks.
>
> I notice that it seems very fashionable at the moment, for bike makers to
> use radially mounted front brake calipers.
>
> Is there some good reason for it, and, if so, what is it?

I believe that the theory is that conventional mounting distorts the forks
slightly under extreme brake-loads thus interfering with bump travel.
I doubt mere mortals like us would ever notice though.
Clem
Nev.. - 27 Sep 2008 04:16 GMT
>> Hi folks.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> slightly under extreme brake-loads thus interfering with bump travel.
> I doubt mere mortals like us would ever notice though.

I think it has more to do with the end of the caliper which is anchored
to the fork having more braking force than the end which is trailing.
This effect is particularly noticeable on the front left caliper of a
blackbird (which pivots somewhat to activate the linked piston on the
rear caliper.  The brake pad in the front left will wear much more
unevenly from end to end than the front right or the rear.

Nev..
'07 XB12X
Iain Chalmers - 27 Sep 2008 05:16 GMT
In article
<48dda5d3$0$15999$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,

> >> Hi folks.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> I think it has more to do with the end of the caliper which is anchored
> to the fork having more braking force than the end which is trailing.

I understand it's mostly a fashion thing on streetbikes - they were
originally built for race bikes where the disk diameters were changed to
suit the tracks/conditions - it's easier to space the caliper out on
radially oriented mounting bolts than to replace the mounting brackets
(which for maximal strength are often part of the fork bottom casting).

Then the marketing people got involved, and started telling the
motorcycle journalists about "improved feel" (which is about as
quantifiable as a typical shampoo performance claim!) and "minimised
fork distortion", assuming that we (the buying public) aren't smart
enough to realise that the forks need to resist the same amount of
touque around the axle to provide the same braking force no matter how
you mount the calipers..

cynical-big

Signature

"Everything you love, everything meaningful with depth and history,
all passionate authentic experiences will be appropriated, mishandled,
watered down, cheapened, repackaged, marketed and sold to the people
you hate."  Mr Jalopy quoting Hooptyrides (on jalopyjunktown.com)

Nev.. - 27 Sep 2008 06:17 GMT
> In article
> <48dda5d3$0$15999$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> touque around the axle to provide the same braking force no matter how
> you mount the calipers..

From memory, at the same time they changed to radial mounted calipers
(I think it was on the ZX10R), they 'downgraded' from 6 piston to 4
piston calipers because they reckoned the improvement in braking with
radial mounting was so great that an improvement in braking could still
be achieved while a further weight saving was realised.  Discuss.

Nev..
'07 XB12X
Knobdoodle - 27 Sep 2008 09:59 GMT
> From memory, at the same time they changed to radial mounted calipers (I
> think it was on the ZX10R), they 'downgraded' from 6 piston to 4 piston
> calipers because they reckoned the improvement in braking with radial
> mounting was so great that an improvement in braking could still be
> achieved while a further weight saving was realised.  Discuss.

Yeah but EVERYBODY downgraded from 6 piston callipers; radially mounted or
not.
I think that's more of an indication that the 6 piston callipers were a
fashion item (that went out of fashion) than "increased braking
performance".
Signature

Clem

IK Laboratories - 27 Sep 2008 07:24 GMT
> I understand it's mostly a fashion thing on streetbikes -

And not only that - it's a vile misnomer; a set of radial anything needs
to converge to a common centre point. As the mounting bolts on a
radial-mount caliper are parallel to each other, they don't qualify.
They should call them parallel-mount, or something, referrring to the
orientation of the caliper mounting bolt relative to the plane of the
brake disc... under that convention, normal calipers would be
transverse-, perpendicular- or orthogonal-mounted... or just
regular-mounted.

> they were originally built for race bikes where the disk
> diameters were changed to suit the tracks/conditions - it's
> easier to space the caliper out on radially oriented mounting
> bolts than to replace the mounting brackets (which for maximal
> strength are often part of the fork bottom casting).

Thoroughly true, and very rarely acknowledged.

*yoinck* Ah, the advantages of living like a slob. Reach down from the
couch to the floor, retrieve December 2006 issue of "Performance Bikes"
featuring a large pic of Carl Fogarty next to his 1998 WSB title-winning
 996. The regular-mount caliper mounting arm on the Ohlins fork, cast
integral with the magnesium fork bottom (now there's a component
drastically in need of a rename[1]) and milled out for lightness,
features two sets of caliper mounting bolt holes, spaced what look to be
~20mm apart.

The following year, factory Ducatis (and GP bikes running Ohlins) got
parallel-mount calipers for the first time.

> Then the marketing people got involved, and started telling the
> motorcycle journalists about "improved feel" (which is about as
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> touque around the axle to provide the same braking force no matter how
> you mount the calipers..

Some of that'll be attributable to Chinese whispers... the first bits of
gumpf about parallel-mount calipers acknowledge that the benefits are in
the greater stiffness of the mounting of the caliper to the fork...
because the caliper is fixed at both the leading and the trailing end
(with respect to disc rotation - and, note, there's no reason why this
can't be done with regular mounting), rather than just the trailing end,
if the disc flexes from side to side, it doesn't take the caliper with
it, and because there are now two shorter, spaced-out mounting arms
instead of a single longer one, there'll be less azimuthal movement of
the caliper... get on the picks, the disc tries to take the caliper with
it, caliper mounting arm doesn't let it, there's less flexion with the
parallel-mount arrangement.

The mounting can be made more compact, lighter etc... the difference in
performance might be SFA, but it makes for inherently better
engineering, like mounting the calipers behind the forkleg instead of in
front, or stacking the gearbox shafts on top of one another, so why not
do it?

[1] If you're Caucausian, and you let one go in the company of some
Native American, then lie about it, would they be correct in stating
that white man speaks with fork bottom?
Knobdoodle - 27 Sep 2008 10:05 GMT
> [1] If you're Caucausian, and you let one go in the company of some Native
> American, then lie about it, would they be correct in stating that white
> man speaks with fork bottom?

These are the types of questions that NEED to be asked!!
Signature

Clem
[applause] by the way.

Diogenes - 27 Sep 2008 01:46 GMT
>Hi folks.
>
>I notice that it seems very fashionable at the moment, for bike makers
>to use radially mounted front brake calipers.
>
>Is there some good reason for it, and, if so, what is it?

Please excuse my consderable ignorance, but what does "radially
mounted" mean?  And this is a family forum, thank you very much!!!
Onya bike...

Gerry
Diogenes - 27 Sep 2008 01:57 GMT
>>Hi folks.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Please excuse my consderable ignorance, but what does "radially
>mounted" mean?  And this is a family forum, thank you very much!!!

Actually, I just Googled it:

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/13november02radialbrakes.html

Very interesting...

Onya bike...

Gerry
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.