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Motorcycle Forum / Country Specific / Australian Group / December 2008Qld to get LAMs!
According to today's Courier Mail we're finally getting LAMs (although the 660cc version; not the full-blown one) http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24643373-3102,00.html Nothing else cheery to report.  SignatureClem > According to today's Courier Mail we're finally getting LAMs (although the > 660cc version; not the full-blown one) > http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24643373-3102,00.html > Nothing else cheery to report. > Quote: The Government will also introduce a Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme to replace the existing 250ml engine capacity restriction for class RE motorcycle licence holders with a restriction based on a 150kW power-to-weight ratio and a 660ml upper engine capacity limit. ... Can someone please explain what this means...for the not so tech minded? I recently got my RE licence..will this mean I can ride a 660cc bike...the requirement being it's under the 150kw limit? Does such a bike even exist? Sean > > According to today's Courier Mail we're finally getting LAMs (although the > > 660cc version; not the full-blown one) [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > bike...the requirement being it's under the 150kw limit? > Does such a bike even exist? A great many, even most, motorcycles under 660 fall within this list, see http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/motorcycleridertrainingscheme/motorcyc lesnoviceriders.html Includes the SV650 and the Moto Guzzi V65, but not an R6. Theo On Nov 14, 7:17 am, 33-45 <33...@3345.com> wrote: > Knobdoodle wrote: > > According to today's Courier Mail we're finally getting LAMs (although [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > bike...the requirement being it's under the 150kw limit? > Does such a bike even exist? A great many, even most, motorcycles under 660 fall within this list, see http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/motorcycleridertrainingscheme/motorcyc lesnoviceriders.html Includes the SV650 and the Moto Guzzi V65, but not an R6. Theo I have checked the RTA website and they mention a Suzuki SV650SU (whatever that is). My understanding is that the current SV650 puts out about 52kW and weighs about 175kg dry. You will need a rather heavy rider to obtain a power to weight ratio of less than 150kW per tonne. If you allow 20kg for fuel and other fluids, allow even 100 kg for a rider in riding gear, you will obtain a power to weight ratio of 170 to 175 kw per tonne. While I am open to arguments, I doubt that the current SV650 is learner legal, despite what is stated on the NSW RTA website. John Dwyer. In aus.motorcycles on Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:41:01 +1100 > I have checked the RTA website and they mention a Suzuki SV650SU (whatever > that is). My understanding is that the current SV650 puts out about 52kW It is a restricted version. > and weighs about 175kg dry. You will need a rather heavy rider to obtain a > power to weight ratio of less than 150kW per tonne. If you allow 20kg for > fuel and other fluids, allow even 100 kg for a rider in riding gear, you > will obtain a power to weight ratio of 170 to 175 kw per tonne. While I am > open to arguments, I doubt that the current SV650 is learner legal, despite > what is stated on the NSW RTA website. THe SV650SU is. The SV650 isn't. Seems simple enough to me. Zebee > On Nov 14, 7:17 am, 33-45 <33...@3345.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > open to arguments, I doubt that the current SV650 is learner legal, despite > what is stated on the NSW RTA website. The SV650SU is a restricted version of the SV, and the power to weight is calculated used a nominal weight rider of I think it was 75Kg. Your actual weight is not relevant for the purposes of approving which bike you can ride. The list is pre-approved based on weights and power recorded during the homologation process JL > > > According to today's Courier Mail we're finally getting LAMs (although the > > > 660cc version; not the full-blown one) [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > seehttp://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/motorcycleridertrainingsche... > Includes the SV650 and the Moto Guzzi V65, but not an R6. Errr no it doesn't yet include the SV650. It will shortly when the restricted SV hits our shores JL >> According to today's Courier Mail we're finally getting LAMs >> (although the 660cc version; not the full-blown one) [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Sean Ok, I think I've done this right.. How is power to weight ratio calculated? • The power output (kilowatts) is divided by the tare weight of the motorcycle + 90kg (for rider and fuel). The result is then multiplied by 1000 (to convert to kW per tonne), i.e. Engine power (kW) Tare weight (ie mass of motorcycle in kg) + 90kg (80kg rider weight + 10kg for fuel) x 1000 Spada *Power:*40.00 HP <http://www.bikez.com/jargon/index.php#horsepower> (29.2 kW <http://www.bikez.com/jargon/index.php#kilowatt>)) @ 12000 RPM <http://www.bikez.com/jargon/index.php#Revolutions> *Dry weight:*140.0 kg (308.6 pounds) So: 29.2 divided by 230kg x1000 =126.9 PWR Note to self...lose 35kg... 29.2 / 195kg x1000 = 149.7 PWR Still legal and I can audition for a melbourne cup ride...lol In aus.motorcycles on Fri, 14 Nov 2008 08:17:29 +1000 > Can someone please explain what this means...for the not so tech minded? > > I recently got my RE licence..will this mean I can ride a 660cc > bike...the requirement being it's under the 150kw limit? > Does such a bike even exist? That looks like the same requirements as NSW. So see http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/motorcycleridertrainingscheme/motorcyc lesnoviceriders.html Zebee > According to today's Courier Mail we're finally getting LAMs (although the > 660cc version; not the full-blown one)http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24643373-3102,00.html > Nothing else cheery to report. How is the 660 version different to the full-blown one? Vicroads says From 1 July 2008 there will be new regulations for Learner and Probationary motorcyclists in Victoria with the introduction of a new Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme (LAMS). An approved LAMS list of motorcycles and scooters, which will be updated as new models are approved by VicRoads, provide details of all motorcycles and scooters that learners and newly licensed riders are permitted to ride. View the approved list of motorcycles for novice riders. The LAMS list includes moderately powered motorcycles with an engine capacity up to and including 660cc which do not exceed a power-to- weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne. LAMS gives novice riders access to a greater range of motorcycles and scooters that are appropriate to their level of experience and more suitable to riders of all sizes. The introduction of the LAMS in Victoria will contribute to a more consistent approach to vehicle restrictions for learner and newly licensed riders across the country as similar schemes operate in South Australia, Tasmania, New South Wales and the ACT. Nsw says Approved motorcycles for novice riders Revised 23/10/2008 As from 6 September 2002 a Learner Approved Motorcycle (LAM) scheme for novice riders (both learner and provisional) will commence on a trial basis. The LAM scheme will allow novice riders to ride moderately powered motorcycles with an engine capacity up to and including 660ml and which do not exceed a power to weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne and are shown on this list. The following list, which will be adjusted as new models are approved by the RTA, displays details of all motorcycles that can be ridden by learner and provisional riders. Theo > > According to today's Courier Mail we're finally getting LAMs (although the > > 660cc version; not the full-blown one)http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24643373-3102,00.html [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > details of all motorcycles that can be ridden by learner and > provisional riders. I believe the ACT just has the 150kw/tonne without the 660cc restriction (so the learner-you could theoretically ride a big 'Guzzi or Harley) -- Clem On Nov 14, 10:23 am, knobdoo...@hotmail.com wrote: > I believe the ACT just has the 150kw/tonne without the 660cc > restriction (so the learner-you could theoretically ride a big 'Guzzi > or Harley) OK, I didn't know that. Are there any states apart from WA who don't now have LAMS? Theo On Nov 14, 10:23 am, knobdoo...@hotmail.com wrote: > I believe the ACT just has the 150kw/tonne without the 660cc > restriction (so the learner-you could theoretically ride a big 'Guzzi > or Harley) OK, I didn't know that. Are there any states apart from WA who don't now have LAMS? Theo ----------------------------------------------------------- Bloke I know in New South Wales hasn't, he's got beef > On Nov 14, 10:23 am, knobdoo...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Theo No. NT is (technically) not a state. SignatureRegards Andrew > On Nov 14, 10:23 am, knobdoo...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > OK, I didn't know that. Are there any states apart from WA who don't > now have LAMS? Nope JL (not according to amcn anyway) > > OK, I didn't know that. Are there any states apart from WA who don't > > now have LAMS? > > Nope > (not according to amcn anyway) We have a three of people at work would love to get into bikes, but the 250 thing is a problem for the one that is 180cms and more of a problem for the 190 cm guy, The third guy is 155 so has the opposite problem. I've emailed DPI and asked them why not and when. (for the non-WAers, that's Dept of Planning and Infrastructure, who handle that stuff in WA). Theo >>> OK, I didn't know that. Are there any states apart from WA who don't >>> now have LAMS? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > problem for the 190 cm guy, The third guy is 155 so has the opposite > problem. What is their problem? Nev.. '07 XB12X > >>> OK, I didn't know that. Are there any states apart from WA who don't > >>> now have LAMS? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > What is their problem? They work for us. Theo >> >>> OK, I didn't know that. Are there any states apart from WA who don't >> >>> now have LAMS? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Theo Steps in the Ivory Tower too steep? Johno Coopers mate? > >> What is their problem? > > >They work for us. > Steps in the Ivory Tower too steep? I don't let the workers in the tower. > Coopers mate Cheers Theo > I've emailed DPI and asked them why not and when. (for the non-WAers, > that's Dept of Planning and Infrastructure, who handle that stuff in > WA). Response from DPI, They're not even thinking about it. Dear Theo Thank you for your enquiry. TheWestern Australia state government is always discussing legislation that benefits the Western Australian community more. However it is not currently considering implementing the 'Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme'. If you require further information please do not hesitate to reply to this email. Alternatively, you can visit our website, www/licensing or call our Customer Contact Centre on 13 11 56 or +61 8 9427 6404 if you are calling from outside Australia. Kind regards, David Senior Consultant Communications Team DPI Licensing Customer Contact Centre >> I've emailed DPI and asked them why not and when. (for the non-WAers, >> that's Dept of Planning and Infrastructure, who handle that stuff in [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Communications Team > DPI Licensing Customer Contact Centre Sounds like time for a little lobbying. Point out how far out of step they are with the rest of Aus, etc.. Any of the gubiment in marginal seats? Could be worth targeting? SteveB > >> I've emailed DPI and asked them why not and when. (for the non-WAers, > >> that's Dept of Planning and Infrastructure, who handle that stuff in [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Any of the gubiment in marginal seats? Could be worth targeting? Next election is years away. Theo >>> I've emailed DPI and asked them why not and when. (for the non-WAers, >>> that's Dept of Planning and Infrastructure, who handle that stuff in [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Sounds like time for a little lobbying. Point out how far out of step > they are with the rest of Aus, etc.. Is it really that big a deal? > Any of the gubiment in marginal seats? Could be worth targeting? If you believe anyone who tries to convince you that a motorcycling issue will win or lose enough electoral votes to make a difference, I have a bridge for sale at bargain price :) Nev.. '07 XB12X >>>> I've emailed DPI and asked them why not and when. (for the non-WAers, >>>> that's Dept of Planning and Infrastructure, who handle that stuff in [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >Nev.. >'07 XB12X I thought you sold it last week? Johno Coopers? On Nov 14, 12:23 pm, knobdoo...@hotmail.com wrote: > > > According to today's Courier Mail we're finally getting LAMs (although the > > > 660cc version; not the full-blown one)http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24643373-3102,00.html > > > Nothing else cheery to report. > > > How is the 660 version different to the full-blown one? > I believe the ACT just has the 150kw/tonne without the 660cc > restriction (so the learner-you could theoretically ride a big 'Guzzi > or Harley) yeah ACT is the only one for the pure power to weight no capacity limit JL (660 is a bit of an odd threshold in my opinion) On Nov 14, 12:23 pm, knobdoo...@hotmail.com wrote: > On Nov 14, 8:28 am, theo <t...@bekkers.com.au> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > How is the 660 version different to the full-blown one? > I believe the ACT just has the 150kw/tonne without the 660cc > restriction (so the learner-you could theoretically ride a big 'Guzzi > or Harley) yeah ACT is the only one for the pure power to weight no capacity limit JL (660 is a bit of an odd threshold in my opinion) I was doing Rider Training on weekends for RTA contracted providers when LAMS came in John. From memory the 660cc limit was picked as there were a couple of 660cc singles (Yamaha SZR660 being one I think) that manufacturers argued for inclusion in the scheme. Hence 660cc. Chris > On Nov 14, 12:23 pm, knobdoo...@hotmail.com wrote: >> On Nov 14, 8:28 am, theo <t...@bekkers.com.au> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Hence 660cc. Mmm yes, I gathered it was intended to pickup the SZR660 for example, as opposed to a 650 cutoff, but wasn't my point. I thought 660 was an odd point not because it wasn't a round number but because it seemed a bit low considering the ACT had had their open power to weight limit in for a little while at that stage and it seemed to be successful. I can only assume they thought there was some good reason to cut out the Massey Davidsons and etc that were ok under the ACT legislation JL >> On Nov 14, 12:23 pm, knobdoo...@hotmail.com wrote: >>> On Nov 14, 8:28 am, theo <t...@bekkers.com.au> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > assume they thought there was some good reason to cut out the Massey > Davidsons and etc that were ok under the ACT legislation The story I heard at the time of NSW discussing LAMS was that they worked out an unlimited capacity would allow learners to ride ST1100's which they seemed to think was a bad thing. regards, CrazyCam > The story I heard at the time of NSW discussing LAMS was that they > worked out an unlimited capacity would allow learners to ride ST1100's > which they seemed to think was a bad thing. Truly ? Blimey I wouldn't have expected that - I know they're heavy but I didn't think it was that bad !! Hmmm, if an ST passes then a Goldwing would pass too - hehe - anyone seen an L plate on a goldwing in the ACT yet ? JL >> The story I heard at the time of NSW discussing LAMS was that they worked >> out an unlimited capacity would allow learners to ride ST1100's which [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > JL Not a goldwing, but I did see a Harley with an "L" plate near the airport >> The story I heard at the time of NSW discussing LAMS was that they worked >> out an unlimited capacity would allow learners to ride ST1100's which [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > JL All Goldwings should have L plates. (Loser Plates) >>> The story I heard at the time of NSW discussing LAMS was that they >>> worked out an unlimited capacity would allow learners to ride ST1100's [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > (Loser Plates) Leadwing Plates? Cheers SignatureDavid Robley Fatal Error Using Mouse. Replace and Bury Operator. Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 27th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3174. In aus.motorcycles on Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:26:43 +1100 > Truly ? Blimey I wouldn't have expected that - I know they're heavy but > I didn't think it was that bad !! Hmmm, if an ST passes then a Goldwing > would pass too - hehe - anyone seen an L plate on a goldwing in the ACT > yet ? Seen heaps on hogs, dunno wings are a bike a learner fantasises about... Zebee - whose Norge misses out... but whose other Guzzis are fine in the ACT. > In aus.motorcycles on Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:26:43 +1100 > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Seen heaps on hogs, dunno wings are a bike a learner fantasises > about... Yeah I know the Hogly Ferguson is a popular learner bike in the ACT - but I'd love to see a learner on a goldwing :-) JL (although I suspect a carpark crash would be imminent) >> The story I heard at the time of NSW discussing LAMS was that they worked >> out an unlimited capacity would allow learners to ride ST1100's which [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > would pass too - hehe - anyone seen an L plate on a goldwing in the ACT > yet ? Nope, but I did see Oversize plates on one. SignatureDeevo Geraldton Western Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/mckenzie/index.htm >> On Nov 14, 12:23 pm, knobdoo...@hotmail.com wrote: >>> On Nov 14, 8:28 am, theo <t...@bekkers.com.au> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > assume they thought there was some good reason to cut out the Massey > Davidsons and etc that were ok under the ACT legislation Is it really an odd number, or is it just carrying on the tradition of the 250cc limit (which was actually written up in the legislation as a 260cc limit to allow for the slight variations and avoid the ridiculous anomaly where a 248cc bike would be learner legal but a 251cc bike would not). Surely this is a case of them choosing 650cc because it is a popular number with manufacturers, and then adding 10cc to allow for slight variations in the actual capacity. Nev.. '07 XB12X > (660 is a bit of an odd threshold in my opinion) It's 600cc + 10% GST. >> (660 is a bit of an odd threshold in my opinion) > > It's 600cc + 10% GST. [applause] SignatureClem |
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