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Motorcycle Forum / General / Motorcycles / September 2008$12,000.00 Speeding Ticket
Copied from the National Post Website: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/default.aspx ************************* Albertan gets $12,000 fine for speeding Posted: August 29, 2008, 4:23 PM by Karen Hawthorne Filed under: Crime,Canada,News Had a speeding ticket recently? Well, slow down! A little traffic may be good for the soul, one recent study suggested, but speeding can land you with a massive fine and bad mark on your driving record. This just in from the Edmonton Journal: EDSON, Alta. A 34-year-old Alberta man was handed a $12,000 speeding fine this week after police caught him roaring down the highway at 263 kilometres per hour - more than twice the posted speed limit. On May 1, a police officer noticed the man speeding on a Honda motorcycle on a stretch of Highway 16, between Edson and Hinton, Alta., with a 110 km/h speed limit. The officer gave chase, but was unable to match his speed, said Sgt. Ron Lyons with the RCMP. The same officer later spotted the motorcycle in Hinton, which is about 280 kilometres west of Edmonton. The Edson Traffic Court handed down the fine Aug. 27. *********************** That folks is one friggin expensive speeding ticket! I wonder how many points went with it. -- See Ya On The Road 2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium 2004 HD Road King Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. On Aug 29, 4:41 pm, Calgary <actual.rider_remove_the_obvio...@telus.net> wrote: > EDSON, Alta. — A 34-year-old Alberta man was handed a $12,000 > speeding fine How much is that in *real money*? (USD $) >On Aug 29, 4:41 pm, Calgary ><actual.rider_remove_the_obvio...@telus.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >How much is that in *real money*? (USD $) Since your dollar is swirling around in the sewer, it's almost the same. -- See Ya On The Road 2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium 2004 HD Road King Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. =How much is that in *real money*? (USD $) > Since your dollar is swirling around in the sewer, it's almost the > same. Beat this: http://www.roadmc.com/default.asp?pubid=29 Krusty show his awarness of reality yet again. Thank you George W. And the people still will vote for McSame. > Since your dollar is swirling around in the sewer, it's almost the > same. Which leaves that Monopoly money you folks use where, exactly?  Signature"Outback" Jon - KC2BNE outback_jon@ver.no.sp.am.izon.net AMD Opteron 165 (@2.5) and 6.1 GHz of other AMD power... http://folding.stanford.edu - got folding? Team 53560 2006 ZG1000A Concours "Blueline" COG# 7385 CDA# 0157 >> Since your dollar is swirling around in the sewer, it's almost the >> same. > >Which leaves that Monopoly money you folks use where, exactly? Our dollar is quite strong actually. I dare say the Province I live in is basking in a very flush economy full of opportunities and drenched in money. For a Province of around three million people the recently announced surplus was 8.5 Billion Dollars. In terms of financial success we don't take a back seat to anyone. -- See Ya On The Road 2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium 2004 HD Road King Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. >> Since your dollar is swirling around in the sewer, it's almost the >> same. > >Which leaves that Monopoly money you folks use where, exactly? Park Place ? SignatureClick here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!! www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/ Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm >>On Aug 29, 4:41 pm, Calgary >><actual.rider_remove_the_obvio...@telus.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Since your dollar is swirling around in the sewer, it's almost the >same. Could it be that Krusty is actually Brian Walker? <g> > On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:50:12 GMT, Calgary > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Could it be that Krusty is actually Brian Walker? <g> He has his faults but it's possible that Krusty is a better man that Brian Walker...lying sonofabitch <ptooie> -- Keith >> On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:50:12 GMT, Calgary >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >He has his faults but it's possible that Krusty is a better man that >Brian Walker...lying sonofabitch <ptooie> Heh, heh. A good example of damning by faint praise. > On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:47:36 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee" > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Heh, heh. A good example of damning by faint praise.- Maybe but if I had to pick one to keep alive... -- Keith >>>On Aug 29, 4:41 pm, Calgary >>><actual.rider_remove_the_obvio...@telus.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Could it be that Krusty is actually Brian Walker? <g> Well that would sure explain a lot. -- See Ya On The Road 2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium 2004 HD Road King Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. On Sep 1, 9:51 am, Calgary <actual.rider_remove_the_obvio...@telus.net> wrote: > On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 04:16:05 GMT, langkd_NO_S...@shaw.ca (Road Glidin' > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Well that would sure explain a lot. A lot of similarities but...he doesn't lie like brian. -- Keith >On Sep 1, 9:51 am, Calgary ><actual.rider_remove_the_obvio...@telus.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >A lot of similarities but...he doesn't lie like brian. I don't read Krusty's stuff. The man has too many deep seated prejudices for me to waste my time reading or listening to anything he might have to say. As for Brian he is just plain comical. I have likened his tales of his experiences to one endless I Love Lucy episode. I mean he moves from one self inflicted calamity to another with almost scary ease. He's gone offline now. I suspect he is tending to his Dad who appears to be very sick. -- See Ya On The Road 2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium 2004 HD Road King Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. On Sep 1, 3:08�pm, Calgary <actual.rider_remove_the_obvio...@telus.net> wrote: > On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 14:43:40 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee" > > <stevenkei...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >On Sep 1, 9:51�am, Calgary > I don't readKrusty'sstuff. The man has too many deep seated > prejudices for me to waste my time reading or listening to anything he > might have to say. It doesn't matter. My rants are intended as a public service to *Americans*, not Canuckistanis. > On Sep 1, 3:08 pm, Calgary > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > It doesn't matter. My rants are intended as a public service to > *Americans*, not Canuckistanis. Problem is...racist are not americans at best and traitors to the constitution at worst. -- keith > Problem is...racist are not americans at best and traitors to the > constitution at worst. Fug're yew talkin' 'bout, boy? The constitution was written by free *White* men of good character who had no intention of making slaves, blacks, indentured servants, or Indians into citizens. They wrote the preamble which refers to "our posterity". That's *me*, Mr. Posterity, a free White man of good character. The 13th amendment was just, it freed the children of slaves who would not have been born into slavery except for the American misunderstanding of Muslim law. The 14th and 15th amendments were unjustly forced upon the South by the Radical Republicans, who wanted to reward the Freed Men for their suffering during slavery. African repatriation of the descendants of slaves is a bit of unfinished American business. > On May 1, a police officer noticed the man speeding on a Honda > motorcycle on a stretch of Highway 16, between Edson and Hinton, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > about 280 kilometres west of Edmonton. The Edson Traffic Court handed > down the fine Aug. 27. Wouldn't fly in US courts if the dude had a decent lawyer. Cop hadn't kept sight of the bike so he couldn't say for certain that it was the same bike let alone the same rider. >> On May 1, a police officer noticed the man speeding on a Honda >> motorcycle on a stretch of Highway 16, between Edson and Hinton, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > sight of the bike so he couldn't say for certain that it was the same bike > let alone the same rider. Not to forget the proscription against "cruel and unusual punishment". That would certainly be considered unusual in my neck of the woods. SignatureMortimer Schnerd, RN mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com >>> On May 1, a police officer noticed the man speeding on a Honda >>> motorcycle on a stretch of Highway 16, between Edson and Hinton, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Not to forget the proscription against "cruel and unusual punishment". That >would certainly be considered unusual in my neck of the woods. What no one gets fined 12 grand in your corner of the world? Going 150k (90mph +/-) over the limit might invoke a charge over and above speeding. I guess how unusual the fine might be is dependant on the law broken. -- See Ya On The Road 2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium 2004 HD Road King Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. :What no one gets fined 12 grand in your corner of the world? Going :150k (90mph +/-) over the limit might invoke a charge over and above :speeding. Not for speeding. You can lose your license for a long time, but the maximum fine wouldn't run over $1,000 in most places. You canucks need to get a handle on your government. --- Typical White a.shole rm@48pan.com writes in rec.motorcycles: >:What no one gets fined 12 grand in your corner of the world? Going >:150k (90mph +/-) over the limit might invoke a charge over and above >:speeding. > >Not for speeding. You can lose your license for a long time, but the >maximum fine wouldn't run over $1,000 in most places. The only example of a fine that extreme that I've heard of was a few years ago in one of the Scandinavian countries. Apparently traffic fines there are a percentage of annual income (does make sense in some kind of way). And a guy had just cashed that year by selling has startup company to the highest bidder and was fined something close to a 100.000 Us dollars. Mike >:What no one gets fined 12 grand in your corner of the world? Going >:150k (90mph +/-) over the limit might invoke a charge over and above >:speeding. > >Not for speeding. You can lose your license for a long time, but the >maximum fine wouldn't run over $1,000 in most places. A report in today's newspaper stated he negotiated the high fine in order to keep his license. >You canucks need to get a handle on your government. You know I often think exactly the same about you and your government. -- See Ya On The Road 2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium 2004 HD Road King Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. :You know I often think exactly the same about you and your government. I don't disagree with that. They seem to be out of hand in many places. Tom Jefferson would be quick to point out that it has been way too long since the last revolution. --- Typical White a.shole >>:What no one gets fined 12 grand in your corner of the world? Going >>:150k (90mph +/-) over the limit might invoke a charge over and above [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >A report in today's newspaper stated he negotiated the high fine in >order to keep his license. I think the deal was negotiated mainly to avoid prison time. If deterents are the goal, the case presents an interesting dilemna. For people who aren't wealthy, the $12,000 fine is a mighty strong deterent. For someone who can easily afford the $12,000, jail time would be a stronger deterent. The problem being we don't want the justice system to let rich people able to pay their way out (one standard for the poor and another for the wealthy). It might have been better to have stuck with what the law demanded and thrown the guy in jail, just like anyone else would have, given the same offense - no deals. >>>:What no one gets fined 12 grand in your corner of the world? Going >>>:150k (90mph +/-) over the limit might invoke a charge over and above [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >law demanded and thrown the guy in jail, just like anyone else would >have, given the same offense - no deals. I agree and that is one of the many reasons I do not like all the photo traffic enforcement tools. I know a few people who consider the photo radar fines simply as a cost of doing business. The fines are no deferent. Now assigning points with the end result of losing your license if you acquire too many, now that is a deferent. By the way I am anxiously awaiting your Vancouver Island ride report. <g> We took four days to ride a few of the better BC roads around the same time you were on the Island. We are headed out again this weekend to the Slocan Valley Kootenay Bay area. Five days this time. -- See Ya On The Road 2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium 2004 HD Road King Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. >>>>:What no one gets fined 12 grand in your corner of the world? Going >>>>:150k (90mph +/-) over the limit might invoke a charge over and above [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >deferent. Now assigning points with the end result of losing your >license if you acquire too many, now that is a deferent. Agreed! >By the way I am anxiously awaiting your Vancouver Island ride report. ><g> Heh, heh. Man, I'm so far behind on ride reports it's getting pathetic. Spending too much time on the riding part! I'm still working on the Whitehorse Trip ride report... >We took four days to ride a few of the better BC roads around the same >time you were on the Island. We are headed out again this weekend to >the Slocan Valley Kootenay Bay area. Five days this time. Sounds like good destinations. Gladys and I just got back from a ride to Drumheller. Rode there on Saturday via Wainwright and down Hwy 41 - a strong wind at our backs the whole time - and stayed in the only Hotel/Tavern in the tiny hamlet of East Coulee. Rocked that place with the locals until 2:30 in the morning. Got up Sunday morning to a light drizzle and frigid temperatures, just slightly above freezing. So cold, in fact, that Gladys' Sporty wouldn't crank over (I think it's time to replace the battery in it). So, still hung over, I tried push-starting it in the rain, on the slight hills in town. Sporties are a son-of-a-bitch that way because, unless they're in neutral, the clutch always drags with the clutch pulled in (don't know why, but that's just the way they are - it's not an adjustment problem). Makes it real hard to push it fast enough to get the speed necessary to turn the motor when the clutch is released. So I finally gave up on that angle and started looking for jumper cables (used to always carry a set... darn). I had a multi-meter in my saddlebag and had checked the battery's voltage - a sub-optimal 12.5 volts. Luckily, the night before, one of the towns-people had given us his phone number and urged us to call him and have breakfast at his house (there was no breakfast joint in East Coulee), so I contacted him. After messing around with faulty jumper cables for the first 1/2 hour (determined again by the multi-meter), I finally got some good ones hooked up. It started just like that and off we went - trying to make it back to Edmonton in time to have supper with the kids and grandkids. Made it home in good time, but rode through some cold sh.t early on. Good thing we had rain suits, heavy gloves, heat vests and the like. I had my jerry-rigged, made-for-snowmobiles handlebar warmers turned on the whole time. By the time we got to Edmonton it was warm and sunny. Interesting trip and I'd recommend staying at the East Coulee hotel to anyone. Small towns always seem to be the most fun places. $68 a night. All rooms are smoking rooms. If you want, they'll let you park your bike in the enclosed back yard too (something we didn't opt for). ..... >>I agree and that is one of the many reasons I do not like all the >>photo traffic enforcement tools. I know a few people who consider the >>photo radar fines simply as a cost of doing business. The fines are no >>deferent. Now assigning points with the end result of losing your >>license if you acquire too many, now that is a deferent. I think my niece is still awaiting the fine she'll get from a camera in Europe. All the locals knew it was there so suddenly slowed, leaving the tourist to have her picture taken. They're revenue generators. Our present mayor, then assemblyman, tried to shove cameras on the town but the town successfully pushed back, ending the program. >Agreed! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >I'm still working on the Whitehorse Trip ride report... I've yet to start. My sister rode down here this weekend, so I now have the photos she took. I just need to find some good but reasonably priced combo WUSIWYG/text web page editor software. >>We took four days to ride a few of the better BC roads around the same >>time you were on the Island. We are headed out again this weekend to [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >problem). Makes it real hard to push it fast enough to get the speed >necessary to turn the motor when the clutch is released. My Concours is like that. The cold oil would only make that worse, too. Robert > On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 16:36:06 GMT, langkd_NO_S...@shaw.ca (Road Glidin' > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > cameras on the town but the town successfully pushed back, ending the > program. Hmmm. It just occured to me you might be our insider source on the new vice presidential candidate. Related to the photo radar subject I have to say that when we were riding around Anchorage 8 years ago, it definitely seemed the rate of drivers running red lights and things like that was noticably greater than other places we'd been to. > >Agreed! > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > have the photos she took. I just need to find some good but > reasonably priced combo WUSIWYG/text web page editor software. You don't use Notepad like the rest of us pros do? <g> <snip> > >Got up Sunday morning to a light drizzle and frigid temperatures, just > >slightly above freezing. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > My Concours is like that. The cold oil would only make that worse, > too. Yeah, I think the cold oil is the straw that broke that iron horse's back, even though it has synthetic in it (Mobil 1 5w-50). That, and the effect of cold temperature lowering the battery's output. I'll definitely be putting a new battery in that bike over the winter (if not sooner). >> On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 16:36:06 GMT, langkd_NO_S...@shaw.ca (Road Glidin' >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Hmmm. It just occured to me you might be our insider source on the >new vice presidential candidate. Yeah, I just read the ongoing thread about her. She ran for governor against incumbent Frank Murkowski. The Republican Party was backing Frank, so most of the public speakers who support the Party were bad mouthing her a lot. She beat Frank easily, as he had done things like cut off some funding for the elderly then turned around and bought a personal jet, and appointed his daughter to his Federal Senate seat when he vacated it to be governor. He also penned a sweet heart oil tax deal for our local oil developers, which people thought was a little too sweet. Sarah wupped him good, to the dismay of the Party who were upset about losing Frank. Republicans continued to badmouth her (though people who don't like her will tell you it's justified). Our local Rush Limbaugh Jr, who always supports all things Republican and Oil, bashed her daily (and did so this morning). Still, she rewrote the oil tax contract to be not so much of a giveaway (it helped that half a dozen legislators were on trial for accepting bribes), issued an RFP for development of a gas line to any company as opposed to just those companies in the state. Tans-Canada was the successful proposer. I was leery of her reputation of being a Fundamentalist Christian, but to date she seems to have not pushed that as an agenda as Governor. Yes, she and her hubby had an accident, and the poor baby has Downe Syndrome. Yes her daughter got pregnant. Kids do that kind of thing. I have no idea what the girl was taught, but it sounds like she wasn't on the pill, so I assume Mom didn't set her down and teach her how use contraception. You never know though, maybe the bag popped. She wrote a letter to the police some years back, while Mayor I think, claiming her ex-brother in law drank a beer while operating his patrol car, got stopped for suspected DUI (his wife was called to drive him), zapped his step-son with a stun gun, threatened to shoot his father in-law, and a few other things. Don't know if it's still there, but I read the letter on the net. The guy was given a good talking to, though I think only the drinking while driving was determined to have basis as non-family backed up that claim. More recently as Governor, she fired her Commissioner of Public Safety (I think that's his title). Rumor has it she did that because he wouldn't arrange to have her ex-brother in law fired. There's an investigation ongoing about that. If true, I'd say she kind of blew it there. She recently recommended voters reject Proposition #4, which would have tightened regulatory requirements for mining. Pebble mine will be a giant open pit mind. Supposedly one of the largest in America. The plan is to stock pile hazardous byproducts behind an earthen berm so they don't find their way into a nearby salmon rich waterway that supports a major commercial salmon fishery. People are worried that should the chemicals leach into the waterway, a renewable income and food source will be destroyed. Her attacks on Obama are not indicative of how she campaigned up here, so I think that was the McCain campaigners who had her do that. Her reference to the Bridge to Nowhere has a few folks upset here, as she was pro-bridge when she was running for Governor. I think she's more honest than your typical Alaskan politician, and I think she would carry out the will of congress, as an Executive leader should, instead of twisting laws to push her own agenda. As VP, I'd expect her to execute McCain's direction, at least till they got into a fight. Given McCain's rumored racial slurs and tempers, I wonder if they wouldn't end up despising one another. In case anyone wonders, I'm registered Non-Partisan. Unless something changes, I'll be voting Obama as McCain is too war oriented to suit me. >Related to the photo radar subject I have to say that when we were >riding around Anchorage 8 years ago, it definitely seemed the rate of >drivers running red lights and things like that was noticably greater >than other places we'd been to. I don't know what's normal, but it's something I do watch for. One thing I did learn from being in the YT this summer was that speeders out on the highway there exceed the speed limit by a greater magnitude than here. Some of that might have been my imagination, as my HD doesn't have metric on the speedo. Certainly our ride out to dinner was more than a little over the limit. I also had two instances in Whitehorse where I had to yield the right of way to a cage turning left when I was turning right. Don't know why they though they had the right of way, but they certainly took it. Once would have been nothing, but twice made me think it might not be a freak occurrence. Still, here in Anchorage the cameras were for money making, not safety. >> >Agreed! >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >You don't use Notepad like the rest of us pros do? <g> Funny you should say that. There does seem to be a group out there who are opposed to the more modern conveniences. It's like they're Amish web editors or something, I can't see limiting myself to text only HTML editing only, but it's hard to find a product that does both well for $100. ><snip> >> >Got up Sunday morning to a light drizzle and frigid temperatures, just [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >definitely be putting a new battery in that bike over the winter (if >not sooner). I just bought a new battery for the Concours as I ruined it last winter. While I satisfied myself that my HD battery is OK (voltmeter is WAY off), it's leaking gas at the negative post. I'll replace it over the winter too, as it's corroding the negative cable connection. Robert > Funny you should say that. There does seem to be a group out there > who are opposed to the more modern conveniences. It's like they're > Amish web editors or something, I can't see limiting myself to text > only HTML editing only, but it's hard to find a product that does both > well for $100. Ah yes, www.AmishWebEditors.com. Registration is only $3 per year. We adhere to Linux, and we don't believe in Flash. We don't use Microsoft Office to generate *.html files because, after all, we don't run Windows and, anyway, the results won't fit on our 512MB thumb drives. > While I satisfied myself that my HD battery is OK (voltmeter is WAY > off), it's leaking gas at the negative post. I'll replace it over > the winter too, as it's corroding the negative cable connection. Smear a little dielectric grease over the outside of the connector. Signature.. Be Seeing You, .. Chuck Rhode, Sheboygan, WI, USA .. Weather: http://LacusVeris.com/WX .. 58° — Wind NW 10 mph — Sky mostly cloudy. > > Funny you should say that. There does seem to be a group out there > > who are opposed to the more modern conveniences. It's like they're [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > run Windows and, anyway, the results won't fit on our 512MB thumb > drives. That reminds me. Thanks, thanks for helping me keep this old TRS-80 Model III on the net. I don't know what voodoo you did to get it to accept these new fangled modem thinigies. I miss my old reliable 2,800 baud phone modem. -- keith entering each 1 and 0 by hand leads to speiling errols. > I miss my old reliable 2,800 baud phone modem. Compression and caching are wonderful things. Join with us now to avert the impending worldwide crash of the electron economy. Signature.. Be Seeing You, .. Chuck Rhode, Sheboygan, WI, USA .. Weather: http://LacusVeris.com/WX .. 57° — Wind WSW 3 mph — Sky partly cloudy. >> Funny you should say that. There does seem to be a group out there >> who are opposed to the more modern conveniences. It's like they're [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >run Windows and, anyway, the results won't fit on our 512MB thumb >drives. Yeah, I was using Microsoft Publisher till I started digging into web page editing a little. Now I'm looking for something else, but not notepad. Typing in tags one character at a time is OK I guess, but that's about as fundamental as it gets. I'd like to find a decent editor with a visual side to it where I can edit in either mode, and see the result in the other. Some seem to be a text based only editor with a visual view panel, some seem to be a visual editor only with a text view panel, while some do try to permit editing in both. I've been looking into some editors like CoffeeCup. I think it's a text based html editor that has had a visual package added to it. You have to Save each time you switch from one mode to the other, but you can edit in either then switch over to see what it looks like and tweak as desired. The only negative to it is that it doesn't handle as many different codes (xhtml?, etc) as others. >> While I satisfied myself that my HD battery is OK (voltmeter is WAY >> off), it's leaking gas at the negative post. I'll replace it over >> the winter too, as it's corroding the negative cable connection. > >Smear a little dielectric grease over the outside of the connector. I should give it a try. A spacer is used to bring the post flush with the side of the battery. The majority of the corrosion is occurring at the interface of the spacer and post, and inside the spacer along the bolt. Packing the spacer might take care of it. Robert > I'd like to find a decent editor with a visual side to it where I > can edit in either mode, and see the result in the other. Seamonkey, a successor (along with FireFox) to the old Netscape Navigator browser, has a WYSIWYG editor. o http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/features Signature.. Be Seeing You, .. Chuck Rhode, Sheboygan, WI, USA .. Weather: http://LacusVeris.com/WX .. 57° — Wind WSW 3 mph — Sky partly cloudy. > :What no one gets fined 12 grand in your corner of the world? Going > :150k (90mph +/-) over the limit might invoke a charge over and above [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > You canucks need to get a handle on your government. Wrong answer. These kinds of things are culturally dependent (and your point of view is defective, anyhow). The first issue is cultural dependence. In terms of cultural dependence ... in the U.S. the only crimes you can get the death penalty for are murder and treason. So you can do something very costly to society -- perhaps far more costly than killing an individual -- and not get the death penalty for it. That is a uniquely American point of view. In China, for example, you can get the death penalty for [the equivalent of] grand theft. There is no reason that the death penalty should be reserved for only murder and treason. If someone, for example, destroys a big-ticket item (a dam, a skyscraper, etc.) but doesn't injure or kill anybody ... one could make the argument that such a crime is worse than murder. $100M or $1B is far more than one individual is worth in terms of the damage to society. There is no independent (non culturally-dependent) framework where you can argue that a $12,000 fine for a serious traffic infraction is excessive. "You canucks need to get a handle on your government" does NOT follow. The second issue is the point at which something ceases to be a civil matter and becomes a criminal matter. Going 263kph is reckless behavior directed towards other human beings. Best-case braking (on a sportbike with dry pavement) from 263kph is over 700 feet, with typical probably exceeding 1,000 feet. We're talking 1/4 mile or so. That is reckless. Everyone would agree that discharging a firearm into the air in a populated area is reckless and criminal. The same with riding 263kph. There is no reason that this kind of behavior should not be a criminal matter and result in incarceration. You aren't thinking straight. :You aren't thinking straight. Yes I am. --- Typical White a.shole > :You aren't thinking straight. > > Yes I am. If you operate a bike at 160 MPH, the amount of energy is enormous and the stopping distance is too great. It is reckless behavior: same as firing a gun into the air in a populated area. You might not kill anybody, but you might. Please explain to me why you feel that reckless behavior shouldn't be criminal only becuase it involves a vehicle rather than some other instrument ... If someone runs you over deliberately with a car, don't you feel that they should be charged with murder? The fact that a car is involved doesn't mean that one can't use the car to do something criminal ... Explain your point of view ... :Explain your point of view ... The fine was obscene, cruel and unusual. Government run amok. --- Typical White a.shole > :Explain your point of view ... > > The fine was obscene, cruel and unusual. Based on what standard? That fine was in the ballpark for reckless behavior that may kill or seriously injure another human being. $12,000 might represent about a half-year of work for most individuals. I'm not seeing what is cruel or unusual about that for willful reckless behavior. > I'm not seeing what is cruel or unusual about that for willful reckless behavior. Never heard the old saw about "none is so blind as him who will not see", hmmm? On Aug 30, 9:32 pm, "David T. Ashley" <d...@e3ft.com> wrote: > I'm not seeing what is cruel or unusual about that for willful reckless > behavior. > >Never heard the old saw about "none is so blind as him who will not >see", hmmm? Ever heard the old saw about the person who can't defend their point of view rationally and so posts old saws instead? More justification about why $12,000 is unreasonable for reckless behavior, less old saws. > > I'm not seeing what is cruel or unusual about that for willful reckless > > behavior. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Ever heard the old saw about the person who can't defend their point of view > rationally and so posts old saws instead? That isn't an old saw; that's just Usenet ploy #5: commonly used by a.sholes to defend their own idiocy. Here's how it works: (A) posit a completely off-the-wall opinion, I.E. "$12,000 is a reasonable fine for speeding" then (B) act as if anyone who disagrees with you is some sort of troll, and discount anything they say; no matter what. > More justification about why $12,000 is unreasonable for reckless behavior, > less old saws. You don't get to define the terms of the discussion, you frothing idiot. Besides; had anyone bothered to reply using a real justification, you'd simply say it wasn't so. See your reply to Steve T for an example. (I don't often agree with him on anything, but his statement that this is an example of "government run amok" was absolutely on the button. Seems there's always some bozo on Usenet -you, in this case- who's willing to justify *anything* the State does so long as it fits his preconceptions of "justice". Renditions. Torture. You name it. All "okay" in the minds -such as they are- of folks who think their agenda should be served at the expense of others. On Aug 31, 8:00 am, "David T. Ashley" <d...@e3ft.com> wrote: > > I'm not seeing what is cruel or unusual about that for willful reckless > > behavior. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >willing to justify *anything* the State does so long as it fits his >preconceptions of "justice". Renditions. Torture. You name it. You still haven't really addressed the issue. My only point is that the behavior involved is likely to get others killed. At some point, it has to stop being a simple traffic ticket matter and either lead into outrageous civil sanctions or criminal sanctions. It isn't clear what kind of a society you want to live in ... clearly one where innocent people get killed frequently for no good reason. Aside from diagnosing me with rabies ("frothing"), you really have not addressed the issue of why you believe that very dangerous behavior shouldn't be answered with very inconvenient sanctions ... Dave. >>You don't get to define the terms of the discussion, you frothing >>idiot. Besides; had anyone bothered to reply using a real [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > killed. At some point, it has to stop being a simple traffic ticket matter > and either lead into outrageous civil sanctions or criminal sanctions. Well, among civilized nations they award points to your license in addition to a fine, so even if you can afford a fine, you still need to take care to avoid the points. You can have your license revoked if you do not improve your road manners. > It isn't clear what kind of a society you want to live in ... clearly one > where innocent people get killed frequently for no good reason. > > Aside from diagnosing me with rabies ("frothing"), you really have not > addressed the issue of why you believe that very dangerous behavior > shouldn't be answered with very inconvenient sanctions ... Shoot them on the spot. Wait, shooting is too civil. Catch them alive and torture them some before you shoot. That will learn them, won't it? SignatureAndrzej Rosa >>>You don't get to define the terms of the discussion, you frothing >>>idiot. Besides; had anyone bothered to reply using a real [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > and > torture them some before you shoot. That will learn them, won't it? I appreciate the humor, but everyone has missed my point. Endangering people with a motorcycle is no different than, for example, discharging a firearm into the air in a populated area. It puts others at too great a risk. To live with each other, we all need to make a few concessions to protect each other's safety. I don't see any reason in the world that sufficiently reckless behavior shouldn't result in very large fines. The fact that the behavior occurred on a motorcycle shouldn't inherently limit the fines. I don't see any reason in the world that sufficiently reckless behavior shouldn't result in criminal prosecution. The fact that the behavior occurred on a motorcycle shouldn't inherently prevent this. Some of the people on this list seem to be of the opinion that traffic fines should be limited to a few hundred dollars regardless of how egregious the offense. Why? "Ordinary" speeding (100 in a 70), perhaps. But going 160 mph on a road where one might encounter other traffic ... that is nearly criminal. What makes a motorcycle special in a way where the rider should be exempt from accountability and responsibility? I guess some people just can't handle adult priveleges. >>> It isn't clear what kind of a society you want to live in ... clearly >>> one where innocent people get killed frequently for no good reason. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > discharging a firearm into the air in a populated area. It puts others at > too great a risk. You could find a better metaphor. Terminal velocity of a dropping bullet isn't anything dangerous. > To live with each other, we all need to make a few concessions to protect > each other's safety. > > I don't see any reason in the world that sufficiently reckless behavior > shouldn't result in very large fines. I do. State can't harvest misdemeanors. If the misdemeanor is serious enough, change its status to something graver and arrest people, but do not let the state earn. > The fact that the behavior occurred > on a motorcycle shouldn't inherently limit the fines. > > I don't see any reason in the world that sufficiently reckless behavior > shouldn't result in criminal prosecution. The fact that the behavior > occurred on a motorcycle shouldn't inherently prevent this. Sure. But huge fines are iffy at best, and confiscation of property of a citizen shouldn't be so easy. I say, if you are so hell bent against speeding, put him in jail but keep your greedy hands away from his bike. > Some of the people on this list seem to be of the opinion that traffic > fines should be limited to a few hundred dollars regardless of how > egregious the > offense. Why? "Ordinary" speeding (100 in a 70), perhaps. But going 160 > mph on a road where one might encounter other traffic ... that is nearly > criminal. I did it once. I chased a car, for fun. The car was faster, because with a tankbag I couldn't lie flat on the tank, which was tiring. There was traffic and all. Why, I hit 220 km/h fairly regularly (my personal "I've had enough" point). Now, I don't expect everybody to accept it as my right. It might happen that the society will get pussified^Wcivilized to the point when behavior like that will be a felony. Well, nothing beautiful lasts for ever. But they should never have the right to seize my bike! > What makes a motorcycle special in a way where the rider should be exempt > from accountability and responsibility? I guess some people just can't > handle adult priveleges. The only special thing about a bike is that a biker always risks more than anybody else on the road, no matter if he is fast or slow. But it isn't much, I agree. SignatureAndrzej Rosa >> Endangering people with a motorcycle is no different than, for example, >> discharging a firearm into the air in a populated area. It puts others [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You could find a better metaphor. Terminal velocity of a dropping bullet > isn't anything dangerous. You may find this page interesting. http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/March01.htm On average, a bullet fired straight up won't produce a lethal wound. However, one can get unlucky and get: a)A bullet with an x-component (not fired straight up). b)One that enters an eye or mouth, etc. c)A larger bullet than was used in those tests (= higher terminal velocity). 300 feet per second is about 200mph ... that could sting. Firing guns in the air ain't entirely safe ... >> To live with each other, we all need to make a few concessions to protect >> each other's safety. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > not > let the state earn. Thank you! Finally, somebody who makes a credible argument! OK, I can see that point of view. I've actually experienced that point of view. I once received an expensive speeding ticket with no points. The motive was clear: I wasn't doing anything dangerous but they wanted my money. Stop milking minor crimes for money -- OK, that seems reasonable. I never thought of it that way ... you make a good point. >> The fact that the behavior occurred >> on a motorcycle shouldn't inherently limit the fines. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > anybody else on the road, no matter if he is fast or slow. But it isn't > much, I agree. Well, I think that any criminal charges should have a scientific basis ... one should know approximately how dangerous to others going 160 mph on a bike is. I have no idea, actually. Maybe 160 mph in a car is a better example ... And it depends on where one does this. On a 2-lane highway is different than a limited-access freeway. But there should be a scientific basis. I honestly don't know how dangerous to others a motorcycle is or is not. [...] >>> What makes a motorcycle special in a way where the rider should be >>> exempt from accountability and responsibility? I guess some people just [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > one should know approximately how dangerous to others going 160 mph on a > bike is. I have no idea, actually. If you hit a car you may kill someone, but you have next to none chances of surviving it yourself. So it is dangerous to others. Just not as much as to a rider. > Maybe 160 mph in a car is a better example ... > > And it depends on where one does this. On a 2-lane highway is different > than a limited-access freeway. We practically don't have highways. ;-) > But there should be a scientific basis. I honestly don't know how > dangerous to others a motorcycle is or is not. In practice, not much. Two thirds of collisions involving bikes are judged to be caused by cars, and that doesn't include all the situations where there was no collision, but there was an accident. It's fairly common for a biker to ride off the road at speed, just to avoid a collision. Riders don't tune their radios, don't eat while riding, they don't fix their makeup, and they are very aware that even a minor collision may be fatal to them. Car drivers less so, because compared to a bike, they drive a tank. All of that amounts to about 20 times higher risks per kilometer for a motorcycle. Actually, it would be much worse for a car driver if a biker switched to a car. Speed or no speed, inelastic collisions are ruled by conservation of momentum, and four times lighter object even going twice as fast has only half the momentum. BTW - riders have very small chance of harming a pedestrian too. It's just difficult to hit someone with a narrow vehicle. Loud pipes help too. SignatureAndrzej Rosa >>> I don't see any reason in the world that sufficiently reckless behavior >>> shouldn't result in very large fines. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Stop milking minor crimes for money -- OK, that seems reasonable. It's a conundrum. How do you change people's behavior? Typically, we punish them when they do something wrong. How do you punish people? You can incarcerate them, but then you have to pay for their upkeep, along with the cost of all the jails. We as a society don't condone physical torture (normally.) You can make them do community service (& that is done in many cases and probably should in many more.) But government sees the benefits (income-wise) in causing financial hardship as a punishment. What they don't realize is that it's not especially efficient. (I dunno, maybe they know & don't care, since they're reaping all the dough.) What makes it ludicrous is the Gumball 3000 rally. That's the race for the idle rich. It's a bunch of people who own the world's most exotic cars, racing on public streets for 3000 miles. This year's rally just finished in Beijing. It started in San Francisco. On the first leg to LA, cars were going well over 100mph. Some drivers collected 5 or more traffic tickets that day. When a person can afford a $1.8million Bugatti, a $12k fine is pocket change. SignatureTurby the Turbosurfer >>OK, I can see that point of view. I've actually experienced that point of >>view. I once received an expensive speeding ticket with no points. The [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > traffic tickets that day. When a person can afford a $1.8million > Bugatti, a $12k fine is pocket change. I think Adrzej (or someone) mentioned earlier something about fines as a percentage of annual income or net worth. Makes sense to me. The only thing that wasn't making sense to me about the earlier discussions is that some seemed to think that 160 mph on a motorcycle _automatically_ shouldn't result in a large fine or criminal charges. That seems rather subjective. It just seemed that at some point aggressive driving stops and reckless behavior begins. I think 160 mph is probably there ... that is beyond lead-foot and into depleted-uranium-foot. >I think Adrzej (or someone) mentioned earlier something about fines as a >percentage of annual income or net worth. Makes sense to me. Do you have any idea of how many different ways there are to calculate net worth or how easy it is to hide annual income? No court or prosecutor would take on the burden. -- See Ya On The Road 2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium 2004 HD Road King Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. >> It's a conundrum. How do you change people's behavior? Typically, we >> punish them when they do something wrong. How do you punish people? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I think Adrzej (or someone) mentioned earlier something about fines as a > percentage of annual income or net worth. Makes sense to me. It wasn't me and I wouldn't say so. Actually I remember the mentioned case with a record breaking speeding ticket. The guy barely speeded. He was like 15 km/h over the limit, something like 105 in 90 km/h zone, nothing crazy. He probably worked hard his whole life to get rich, just to be robbed on the highway under some ridiculous pretext. > The only thing that wasn't making sense to me about the earlier > discussions is that some seemed to think that 160 mph on a motorcycle [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > probably there ... that is beyond lead-foot and into > depleted-uranium-foot. Not a problem in civilized countries. They will revoke your driving license, and if you are caught driving without a license, you are in for bigger troubles. Nobody will try to rob you, though. Under this system fines are pretty much redundant, though they help with those who aren't caught often. They serve more as a reminder than a real deterrent. SignatureAndrzej Rosa For what it's worth, the local paper explained that the unusually high fine was agreed to as part of a plea bargain in which the driver got to keep his bike. Cheers, Gordon >For what it's worth, the local paper explained that the unusually high fine >was agreed to as part of a plea bargain in which the driver got to keep his >bike. > >Cheers, >Gordon Thanks Gordon. I had heard on the radio and read in the paper a couple of references to the fine being negotiated. -- See Ya On The Road 2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium 2004 HD Road King Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. > For what it's worth, the local paper explained that the unusually high > fine was agreed to as part of a plea bargain in which the driver got to > keep his bike. Around here we have a law, which forbids government from touching your property, no matter what you did. As it happens, we had second in the world constitution, which was strongly based on an American one. I'm not sure that we would follow you so closely nowadays... SignatureAndrzej Rosa >> For what it's worth, the local paper explained that the unusually high >> fine was agreed to as part of a plea bargain in which the driver got to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > world constitution, which was strongly based on an American one. I'm not > sure that we would follow you so closely nowadays... Around the U.S. now, there are various seizure laws ... it isn't restricted to reckless behavior with a vehicle. Examples: a)They can now seize vehicles used to solicit prostitutes. http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/apr/23/solicitations-can-cost-car/ b)They can seize houses which are used to sell drugs. The lesson is clear ... if you must do bad things with your vehicle ... keep a cheap one just for that purpose. Leave the expensive one at home ... >> For what it's worth, the local paper explained that the unusually high >> fine was agreed to as part of a plea bargain in which the driver got to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >world constitution, which was strongly based on an American one. I'm not >sure that we would follow you so closely nowadays... First I am Canadian and live in Canada. You do not have the ability to seize property if it was acquired through illegal means, such as boats or planes used for drug running? Homes used as grow ops? Or just personal property paid for with money generated from illegal operations? There is a growing trend here allowing law enforcement to confiscate property, specifically vehicles for certain crimes. One is communicating for the purposes of prostitution. If you negotiate with a hooker in your car, your car can be confiscated on the spot if you are charged. There are others but that one is the most extreme. -- See Ya On The Road 2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium 2004 HD Road King Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. >>> For what it's worth, the local paper explained that the unusually high >>> fine was agreed to as part of a plea bargain in which the driver got to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > First I am Canadian and live in Canada. I first heard about this law in American context, so I made an assumption. I wasn't aware that it works like that in Canada too. Sorry for you, guys. > You do not have the ability to seize property if it was acquired > through illegal means, such as boats or planes used for drug running? If they legally bought them? Of course not. Though I think some property can be temporarily confiscated as an evidence, but I'm not sure how exactly this works. > Homes used as grow ops? Or just personal property paid for with money > generated from illegal operations? If it's legally yours, nobody can touch it. Bike wasn't stolen, was it? > There is a growing trend here allowing law enforcement to confiscate > property, specifically vehicles for certain crimes. One is > communicating for the purposes of prostitution. If you negotiate with > a hooker in your car, your car can be confiscated on the spot if you > are charged. There are others but that one is the most extreme. This _is_ crazy, isn't it? Even apart from the fact that you criminalized prostitution, and not only girls but also customers. Here prostitution is legal, and I've seen two girls hooking alongside the road just yesterday. Cops just insist that they collect used condoms, to keep the woods kinda civil, you know. SignatureAndrzej Rosa > This _is_ crazy, isn't it? Even apart from the fact that you criminalized > prostitution, and not only girls but also customers. Here prostitution is > legal, and I've seen two girls hooking alongside the road just yesterday. > Cops just insist that they collect used condoms, to keep the woods kinda > civil, you know. What country do you live in? I'd like to investigate immigrating ... : ) >> This _is_ crazy, isn't it? Even apart from the fact that you >> criminalized [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What country do you live in? I'd like to investigate immigrating ... : ) Poland. SignatureAndrzej Rosa >>> This _is_ crazy, isn't it? Even apart from the fact that you >>> criminalized [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Poland. So much for THAT one :-) SignatureClick here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!! www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/ Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm >>>> This _is_ crazy, isn't it? Even apart from the fact that you >>>> criminalized [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > So much for THAT one :-) Still a f.cking racist eh Milligan? Fyi. A smiley doesn't absolve you, y'know. SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 > >>>> This _is_ crazy, isn't it? Even apart from the fact that you > >>>> criminalized [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Fyi. A smiley doesn't absolve you, y'know. Er... Not wanting to emmigrate to Poland makes one a racist? Uh oh. This is definitely not good news. ;) <-- whether is absolves me or not >>>>>> This _is_ crazy, isn't it? Even apart from the fact that you >>>>>> criminalized [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > ;) <-- whether is absolves me or not It's getting harder and harder to be politically correct these days......racist...... SNIP > It's getting harder and harder to be politically correct these > days......racist......- Hide quoted text - LOL you do know that being politically correct means you are morally bankrupt. That would be in comparison to an alley cat in heat. 8^) -- Keith > SNIP >> It's getting harder and harder to be politically correct these [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > -- > Keith I'm so morally bankrupt I'm looking for that bit of hot pussy in the alley! > I'm so morally bankrupt I'm looking for that bit of hot pussy in the > alley! Movie musical (more properly a grusical) plug: o Burton, Tim, dir. _Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street_. Music by Stephen Sondheim. Screenplay by John Logan. Perf. Johnny Depp, Helena Bonham Carter, Alan Rickman, Timothy Spall, and Sacha Baron Cohen. Dreamworks, 21 Dec. 2007. > The worst pies in London... > And no wonder with the price of meat [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Just the thought of it's enough to make you sick! > And I'm tellin' you, them pussycats is quick! Signature.. Be Seeing You, .. Chuck Rhode, Sheboygan, WI, USA .. Weather: http://LacusVeris.com/WX .. 58° — Wind NNW 14 mph — Sky overcast. > > SNIP > >> It's getting harder and harder to be politically correct these [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I'm so morally bankrupt I'm looking for that bit of hot pussy in the alley! Ah so you DO have higher morals than I. 8^) I corrupt our youth by encouraging motorcycle riding and imbibing in cuban cigars with single malt scotch, haggis and pron...lots and lots of naked flesh covered in organic oils. -- Keith >>> SNIP >>>> It's getting harder and harder to be politically correct these [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > -- > Keith LOL....the local youths enjoy a good burnout and wheelies whenever possible (usually Wednesday drinks night in the shed), my 15 year old is starting riding on the road now. It's all good. I'm afraid my Celtishness has been diluted by some of the heathen American ways......'home grown' cigars, Jim Beam & Steaks (I have tried haggis and black puddings.....I make too much money to eat that crap! :) ). As for the pron....I don't know about that, it sounds interesting, but you mis-spelled 'soils' by missing the 's's. is it sort of like a snuff movie without the cameras? > >>> SNIP > >>>> It's getting harder and harder to be politically correct these [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Cuban Cigars are as illegal as cannabis in the states...just less jail time. Oh I just didn't want to shock the livestock by writning porn...that's all. And it's OILs 8^) I have it on good authority that Olive oil is superior to astroglide. Not that a prude like me would have actual knowledge of anything like that. -- Keith damn, where'd I put my corset? >And it's OILs 8^) I have it on good authority that >Olive oil is superior to astroglide. Not that a prude like me would >have actual knowledge of anything like that. And, back to bikes, people don't realize that water-based sex lubricants actually have some uses in wrenching. [1] [1] No, not 'wenching', 'wrenching'. > And, back to bikes, people don't realize that water-based sex > lubricants actually have some uses in wenching. Do you mean like Slime Super-Duty Tire Sealant for Tubeless Tires? Hey, welcome back, BrianNZ. We thought surely you'd gone out in a blaze of glory and speculated in a desultory way about how and how to find out. Do you use other 'nyms elsewhere? Signature.. Be Seeing You, .. Chuck Rhode, Sheboygan, WI, USA .. Weather: http://LacusVeris.com/WX .. 59° — Wind W 6 mph — Sky overcast. >> And, back to bikes, people don't realize that water-based sex >> lubricants actually have some uses in wenching. > >Do you mean like Slime Super-Duty Tire Sealant for Tubeless Tires? Hmmm. Maybe I should have said some lubricants used in mechanic shops also have uses for sex... ;) >> And, back to bikes, people don't realize that water-based sex >> lubricants actually have some uses in wenching. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > blaze of glory and speculated in a desultory way about how and how to > find out. Do you use other 'nyms elsewhere? Cheers....no blaze of glory, just been seconded out to another job for a while and,with very limited time, it was either no newsgroups or give up drinking. :) No other names.......BrianNZ will do. > On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 23:30:24 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee" > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > [1] No, not 'wenching', 'wrenching'. Perzactly! OO is better for many reasons least of which it is less likely to wash off your throttle cables and brake cables much less the rarely used clutch cable. Not to shabby on chains either...easy appilication not that the OO comes in spray bottles. -- Keith >>>>> SNIP >>>>>> It's getting harder and harder to be politically correct these [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Cuban Cigars are as illegal as cannabis in the states...just less jail > time. Jail time for smoking?? Surely you jest! Amazing how long Cuba has been punished. Maybe now the US is getting it's missiles in Poland, it's time for the Russians to look at Cuba again for their 'defensive shield' of rockets. :) > Oh I just didn't want to shock the livestock by writning > porn...that's all. It's all lies.....don't listen to them! (Where did you learn to speak 'sheep'?) > And it's OILs 8^) I have it on good authority that > Olive oil is superior to astroglide. Not that a prude like me would > have actual knowledge of anything like that. > -- > Keith > damn, where'd I put my corset? I'm so prudish I don't even know what a prude is! (but it sounds a bit rude) Unfortunately, the only naked flesh at my disposal at the moment is my own, and it would take a lot of Scotch to make it look half decent. :) > >>>>> SNIP > >>>>>> It's getting harder and harder to be politically correct these [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Jail time for smoking?? Surely you jest! It's that or a fine, can't remember which. > Amazing how long Cuba has been punished. Maybe now the US is getting > it's missiles in Poland, it's time for the Russians to look at Cuba > again for their 'defensive shield' of rockets. :) 8^) I look at it this way, Cuba is family and this family tiff (on our part) has gone on too damn long imo. Open borders, no tariffs etc, etc, etc and so on and so forth. > > Oh I just didn't want to shock the livestock by writning > > porn...that's all. > > It's all lies.....don't listen to them! (Where did you learn to speak > 'sheep'?) We have lots of them here. That and earlier this month I bought and slaughtered two lambs. Butchered them on the kitchen table...and I REALLY butchered them. ~8^P > > And it's OILs 8^) I have it on good authority that > > Olive oil is superior to astroglide. Not that a prude like me would [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Unfortunately, the only naked flesh at my disposal at the moment is my > own, and it would take a lot of Scotch to make it look half decent. :) I THINK (dangerous to do before the first beer) the phrase you are thinking of is: "My head hurts, my feet stink and I don't love jesus" -- Keith >>>>>>> SNIP >>>>>>>> It's getting harder and harder to be politically correct these [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > It's that or a fine, can't remember which. Since smoking is so bad for your health, a just sentence for smoking a joint would be having to have two more. :) >> Amazing how long Cuba has been punished. Maybe now the US is getting >> it's missiles in Poland, it's time for the Russians to look at Cuba [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > part) has gone on too damn long imo. Open borders, no tariffs etc, > etc, etc and so on and so forth. But that might cost votes? and encourage more immigrants!! >>> Oh I just didn't want to shock the livestock by writning >>> porn...that's all. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > slaughtered two lambs. Butchered them on the kitchen table...and I > REALLY butchered them. ~8^P "The postman knocks twice" type kitchen butchery? >>> And it's OILs 8^) I have it on good authority that >>> Olive oil is superior to astroglide. Not that a prude like me would [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > -- > Keith LOL....thats close enough! My feet hurt ,Jesus stinks and I love head > >>>>>>> SNIP > >>>>>>>> It's getting harder and harder to be politically correct these [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Since smoking is so bad for your health, a just sentence for smoking a > joint would be having to have two more. :) "I smoked two joint in the morning and I smoked two more at lunch" Neat song vera oldish. > >> Amazing how long Cuba has been punished. Maybe now the US is getting > >> it's missiles in Poland, it's time for the Russians to look at Cuba [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > But that might cost votes? and |
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