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Motorcycle Forum / General / Motorcycles / December 2008ABS while cornering - no, it doesn't help, says Honda
For the benefit of all those who were certain it did, and ignored the point that when tyres let go under cornering, they sideslip (and ABS doesn't control that)... Article in this week's Motor Cycle News, page 10. Honda is developing a new ABS system that will work under cornering. It uses gyroscopes. Quote from the paper: "Current ABS systems stop tyres locking up when a bike is upright, but cannot tell when braking causes the tyre to slide sideways, as it would if you panic brake while the bike is leant over." Quote from Kazuhiko Tani, Honda's chief ABS engineer, interviewed by the paper: "The system... will take the added control we can get in a straight line and add control under braking while the motorcycle is cornering. The most difficult part of getting a bike to corner and brake while maintaining control is making sure the lateral forces and grip are not overwhelmed by the braking forces." So there you have it. If you want to argue the point futher, take it up with Tani, but I'll stick with his opinion. > Article in this week's Motor Cycle News, page 10. Honda is developing > a new ABS system that will work under cornering. It uses gyroscopes. Oh, they should just consult with S'hee. S'hee invented the Heuristic Algorithmic Orthogonal Anti-Lock Braking Technology as a premenstrual girl genius thirty years ago. And then forget more than Honda engineers will ever know... > > Article in this week's Motor Cycle News, page 10. Honda is developing > > a new ABS system that will work under cornering. It uses gyroscopes. <snip> Nope, no good, me baffled. > > > Article in this week's Motor Cycle News, page 10. Honda is developing > > > a new ABS system that will work under cornering. It uses gyroscopes. > > <snip> > > Nope, no good, me baffled. He's mad because I actually know something about shocks and have rebuilt them in the past. That and I have opinions and his only nit was I misspell words. 8^) What can I say...he's jealous. -- Keith > For the benefit of all those who were certain it did, and ignored the > point that when tyres let go under cornering, they sideslip (and ABS [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > So there you have it. If you want to argue the point futher, take it > up with Tani, but I'll stick with his opinion. Thanks for the update. Nice to have some facts injected into a reeky debate. On 20 Nov, 15:33, "tomor...@erols.com" <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> wrote: <snip> > Thanks for the update. Nice to have some facts injected into a reeky > debate. I couldn't understand, myself, why so many people were vehement that it *had* to work, when it was bleedin' obvious that the forces on the tyres were lateral, and ABS was not going to prevent a sideways slide. But, yes. > On 20 Nov, 15:33, "tomor...@erols.com" > <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > slide. > But, yes. Nobody ever claimed that it would stop a sideways slide. It won't on a car either. So what?  Signature-- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) > > On 20 Nov, 15:33, "tomor...@erols.com" > > <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Nobody ever claimed that it would stop a sideways slide. It won't on > a car either. So what? Agreed. Pretty clearly, loss of traction occurs when a wheel stops rotating and this is what ABS is intended to prevent. Quite possible that the addition of a gyroscopic sensor to sense lateral forces improves traction while cornering and braking, but this is a far cry from "ABS doesn't work in a corner". Sounds more like an appeal to authority than a technical argument. What I read is that Honda has what they claim is an improvement to ABS technology. > > > On 20 Nov, 15:33, "tomor...@erols.com" > > > <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > braking, but this is a far cry from "ABS doesn't work in a > corner". <snip> Call me simplistic, but it seems to me that if ABS doesn't help in a corner, then it doesn't 'work' in a corner. > > > > On 20 Nov, 15:33, "tomor...@erols.com" > > > > <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Call me simplistic, but it seems to me that if ABS doesn't help in a > corner, then it doesn't 'work' in a corner. OK. You're simplistic. Seems as if a more accurate statement would be that it ***sometimes*** doesn't prevent loss of traction and that Honda has improved on the design. Beware of absolutes like "doesn't work". What kind of corner ? How far over is the bike leaned ? Anybody care to argue that the article "proves" conventional ABS never works in a corner ? >>>>> On 20 Nov, 15:33, "tomor...@erols.com" >>>>> <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > Anybody care to argue that the article "proves" conventional > ABS never works in a corner ? Or to put it another way, would you rather be leaned over in a corner with the wheels _locked_ and sliding sideways or with them _turning_ and sliding sideways? Signature-- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) > >>>>> On 20 Nov, 15:33, "tomor...@erols.com" > >>>>> <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > with the wheels _locked_ and sliding sideways or with them _turning_ > and sliding sideways? And if the latter is the preference AND the actual implementation/ working model for current ABS systems, why hasn't anyone ever crowed about it? On Nov 20, 12:39 pm, "tomor...@erols.com" <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Anybody care to argue that the article "proves" conventional > > > ABS never works in a corner ? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > working model for current ABS systems, why hasn't anyone ever crowed > about it? As I've said before, at at least one MC show, I have witnessed BMW crowing about and convincingly demonstrating their ability to stop a seriously leaned over motorcycle more easily and quickly than I think I would have been able to without ABS. Being that they're BMW, they simply prefer to crow in a more quiet and dignified manner than would certain other sportbike and cruiser manufacturers. :-) > >>>>> On 20 Nov, 15:33, "tomor...@erols.com" > >>>>> <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > with the wheels _locked_ and sliding sideways or with them _turning_ > and sliding sideways? I have trouble imagining that situation on the street and I ride in everything but ice/snow. With and with out the hooved vermin square dancing in front of me. Never paniced enough to lock them up...hard or softly. -- Keith > Or to put it another way, would you rather be leaned over in a corner > with the wheels _locked_ and sliding sideways or with them _turning_ > and sliding sideways? If the older clown is behind the bars, apparently, he wouldn't notice the difference. ;-) SignatureThey must find it difficult - those who have taken authority as the Truth, rather than Truth as the authority. - G. Massey http://911research.wtc7.net http://stj911.org = > > > > > On 20 Nov, 15:33, "tomor...@erols.com" > > > > > <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > it ***sometimes*** doesn't prevent loss of traction and > that Honda has improved on the design. <snip> If improved as Honda states (and if it works), I'd agree with you. When I say "it doesn't help", I'm thinking of motorcycle ABS designs that can't detect lateral slipping. If they can't react to the lateral skid, then the ABS function is pretty much out the window. > > Seems as if a more accurate statement would be that > > it ***sometimes*** doesn't prevent loss of traction and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > that can't detect lateral slipping. If they can't react to the lateral > skid, then the ABS function is pretty much out the window. The ABS function would allow lateral slipage to occur if the wheel was still rotating at a rate that the ABS deemed acceptable. Seems as if ABS would clearly prevent a panic application of brakes from fully locking the wheel regardless of what angle the bike was at. Whether this would be enough to avoid or mitigate a lateral skid or not would probably vary from one situation to the next. My limited understanding of ABS says that lateral and front/rear load sensing are later add ons to what was initially just an anti-lock device. I sort of vaguely recall very early systems as being all hydraulic with no serious electronics at all. >>> Seems as if a more accurate statement would be that >>> it ***sometimes*** doesn't prevent loss of traction and [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > very early systems as being all hydraulic with no > serious electronics at all. I have a Lincoln in the driveway with an all-hydraulic Bendix rear-wheel-only system. I suspect that it's dead--the car doesn't run at the moment so can't say for sure. The theory behind ABS is simple--a tire that is rolling has more traction than one that is not rolling. It doesn't matter if it's also sliding sideways, it _still_ has more traction than a tire that is locked up and sliding sideways. ABS keeps the tires rolling. That's _all_ it does. I don't understand why people are trying to make more of it than that. A stability control system builds on ABS technology to do more, but we aren't talking about stability control. Signature-- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) > I sort of vaguely recall > > very early systems as being all hydraulic with no [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > rear-wheel-only system. I suspect that it's dead--the car doesn't run > at the moment so can't say for sure. That's what I recall from my '70s vintage Peugeot. Dunno if that would qualify as analog hydraulic computing or not. > The theory behind ABS is simple--a tire that is rolling has more > traction than one that is not rolling. It doesn't matter if it's also > sliding sideways, it _still_ has more traction than a tire that is > locked up and sliding sideways. Maybe some pretty pictures would help. Along with maybe a half hour course in Venn diagrams. > When I say "it doesn't help", I'm thinking of motorcycle ABS designs > that can't detect lateral slipping. If they can't react to the lateral > skid, then the ABS function is pretty much out the window. And as I pointed out ages ago, you can have lateral slides with the wheels still turning. View any motorcycle race. SignatureBMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Yamaha XTZ660 Tenere Honda CB400F CB250N SH50 chateau dot murray at idnet dot com "What you're proposing to do will involve a lot of time and hassle for no tangible benefit." >> When I say "it doesn't help", I'm thinking of motorcycle ABS designs >> that can't detect lateral slipping. If they can't react to the lateral >> skid, then the ABS function is pretty much out the window. > > And as I pointed out ages ago, you can have lateral slides with the > wheels still turning. And according to you, if the tires were to lock, that wouldn't change anything, because ABS (unlocked tires) are of no benefit while cornering. SignatureThey must find it difficult - those who have taken authority as the Truth, rather than Truth as the authority. - G. Massey http://911research.wtc7.net http://stj911.org > >> When I say "it doesn't help", I'm thinking of motorcycle ABS designs > >> that can't detect lateral slipping. If they can't react to the lateral [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > change anything, because ABS (unlocked tires) are of no benefit > while cornering. And it's all true. Some times you sound just like Krusty...that worries me. -- Keith ''We were used to such messages in the communist days. Everybody has open eyes and can understand that this is propaganda. It was a weak film that tells us nothing new.'' VACLAV KLAUS, president of the Czech Republic, after watching the MICHAEL MOORE documentary ''Fahrenheit 9/11.'' >>>> When I say "it doesn't help", I'm thinking of motorcycle ABS designs >>>> that can't detect lateral slipping. If they can't react to the lateral >>>> skid, then the ABS function is pretty much out the window. >>> And as I pointed out ages ago, you can have lateral slides with the >>> wheels still turning. >> And according to you, if the tires were to lock, that wouldn't >> change anything, because ABS (unlocked tires) are of no benefit >> while cornering. > And it's all true. An ordinary office fire can vaporise structural steel and locked tires have no effect on the handling of a motorcycle during a lean. Only on usenet... ;-) Signaturehttp://911research.wtc7.net http://www.journalof911studies.com/ http://www.911truth.org Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron... > > > > > > On 20 Nov, 15:33, "tomor...@erols.com" > > > > > > <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > that can't detect lateral slipping. If they can't react to the lateral > skid, then the ABS function is pretty much out the window. I can agree with that. IIRC the article said that Honda was tinkering with gyros to detect sideslip. Time will tell if they chose the right path instead of solidstate intertial detectors. -- Keith > > > > > > > On 20 Nov, 15:33, "tomor...@erols.com" > > > > > > > <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > with gyros to detect sideslip. Time will tell if they chose the right > path instead of solidstate intertial detectors. That's an interesting thought. Didn't know solid state electronics could do that. Hm. What does Apple use in its iPhone and iPod Touch? > > > > > > > > On 20 Nov, 15:33, "tomor...@erols.com" > > > > > > > > <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Hm. What does Apple use in its iPhone and iPod Touch? What are those? ;^) I meant they didn't appear to be talking about either conventional or laser gyro's. -- Keith > > > > > On 20 Nov, 15:33, "tomor...@erols.com" > > > > > <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > Anybody care to argue that the article "proves" conventional > ABS never works in a corner ? No, but then, I still haven't heard of, read about, or talked to anyone anywhere [1] who has ever claimed to have actually experienced the invocation of a motorcycle's ABS system while leaned over. That alone tells me pretty much all I need to know about whether ABS works in a corner or not, absolutes be damned. [1] Except one person in the earlier debate whom, if memory serves, said that he had witnessed it in a parking lot demonstration. > Anybody care to argue that the article "proves" conventional > ABS never works in a corner ? According to the older clown (and the subject line of this thread) conventional ABS is of no benefit while braking during a lean. But of course, a rolling tire tire provides far better rider control than a locked tire whether traveling in a straight line or during a lean. It's amusing that the older clown is still attempting to dispute this. SignatureThey must find it difficult - those who have taken authority as the Truth, rather than Truth as the authority. - G. Massey http://911research.wtc7.net http://stj911.org http://stopthelie.com/1-hour_guide_to_911.html "The new America, born in sin and arrogance, delusional in Manifest Destiny, bred in overabundant gluttony, consumerist and materialist, fathered by George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and the Cabal of Criminality, a country flocked by sheeple, ignorant and conditioned, indifferent to a world growing up around it, living delusions of empire and of omnipotence, building hatred against it and its policies throughout the planet, slowly dumbing down its citizens, losing its edge in the sciences and arts, producing a nation of acquiescent automatons brainwashed to never question authority and always faithfully follow the crimes of governance." - Manuel Valenzuela > > Anybody care to argue that the article "proves" conventional > > ABS never works in a corner ? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > in a straight line or during a lean. It's amusing that the > older clown is still attempting to dispute this. Oh stop being so dense YTC. He has said and said again on motorcycles in a corner ABS does no good. Seems that HONDA....made a couple of your bikes IIRC agree with him and are out to sort out the issue. But that's okay that you can't understand. You are brilliant. Problem is that you continually come to the wrong conclusions. -- Keith ''We were used to such messages in the communist days. Everybody has open eyes and can understand that this is propaganda. It was a weak film that tells us nothing new.'' VACLAV KLAUS, president of the Czech Republic, after watching the MICHAEL MOORE documentary ''Fahrenheit 9/11.'' >> According to the older clown (and the subject line of this >> thread) conventional ABS is of no benefit while braking >> during a lean. But of course, a rolling tire tire provides >> far better rider control than a locked tire whether traveling >> in a straight line or during a lean. It's amusing that the >> older clown is still attempting to dispute this. > Oh stop being so dense YTC. He has said and said again on motorcycles > in a corner ABS does no good. I know, and several people have explained why he's wrong. Here, try reading it again. Do you understand that ABS prevents the rider from locking up a tire while braking? Seems like maybe you and the older clown don't understand that - or else you're disputing the fact that rolling tires provide far more rider control than locked tires? Either way, it's quite f.cking comical... "But of course, a rolling tire tire provides far better rider control than a locked tire whether traveling in a straight line or during a lean." SignatureThey must find it difficult - those who have taken authority as the Truth, rather than Truth as the authority. - G. Massey http://911research.wtc7.net http://stj911.org http://stopthelie.com/1-hour_guide_to_911.html http://www.911truth.org Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed to raging infernos for hours on end. http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled demolition. http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html http://911research.wtc7.net http://stj911.org http://stopthelie.com/1-hour_guide_to_911.html http://www.911truth.org Ever wonder who benefits from the 700 MILLION U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq? http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21 "They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of warfare or morality." -bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq. http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm http://www.commondreams.org/ http://thirdworldtraveler.com/ "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr. "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918) Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron... "The new America, born in sin and arrogance, delusional in Manifest Destiny, bred in overabundant gluttony, consumerist and materialist, fathered by George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and the Cabal of Criminality, a country flocked by sheeple, ignorant and conditioned, indifferent to a world growing up around it, living delusions of empire and of omnipotence, building hatred against it and its policies throughout the planet, slowly dumbing down its citizens, losing its edge in the sciences and arts, producing a nation of acquiescent automatons brainwashed to never question authority and always faithfully follow the crimes of governance." - Manuel Valenzuela > > > > On 20 Nov, 15:33, "tomor...@erols.com" > > > > <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Call me simplistic, but it seems to me that if ABS doesn't help in a > corner, then it doesn't 'work' in a corner.- Hide quoted text - BUT Honda says they are working on that. I find it interesting...mostly because I find it unhelpful in a straight line and wonder could it be redeemed by getting it to work satisfactorally <sic> in corner. Time will tell. Now if I could just get a slipper clutch for a GL1000. -- Keith > Now if I could just get a slipper clutch for a GL1000. Buy a new pair of athletic shoes first so you will have brakes on that Mold Wing. > > Now if I could just get a slipper clutch for a GL1000. > > Buy a new pair of athletic shoes first so you will have brakes on that > Mold Wing. says the c.nt who doesn't think you need to change brake fluid...anyway it out brakes a CBX's on real roads in real conditions. So why change perfection...because I can. -- Keith > > > Now if I could just get a slipper clutch for a GL1000. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > fluid...anyway it out brakes a CBX's on real roads in real conditions. > So why change perfection...because I can. I forgot to add that it's a shame you are so jealous of me and the superior motorcycle I ride. After all you don't have 100,000 on yours... -- keith > I forgot to add that it's a shame you are so jealous of me and the > superior motorcycle I ride. Now *that* is the construct of a fertile mind. Fertile meaning "well manured", of course. Say. Have you ever been to Herefold, Texas? It's called "the Saudi Arabia of cow manure", with 3.5 million cows in a 100 mile radius. I think you'd be right at home there. > > I forgot to add that it's a shame you are so jealous of me and the > > superior motorcycle I ride. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I think you'd be right at home there. The job was too easy so I turned it down. Anyway they had politicians lined up 10,000 deep for the job. You'd do better there anyway...you are already full of sh.t. -- Keith >> On 20 Nov, 15:33, "tomor...@erols.com" >> <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Nobody ever claimed that it would stop a sideways slide. It won't on >a car either. So what? Very different situation. ABS on a car will prevent a sideways slide caused by braking. Cars have sensors for lateral and rotational forces that the ABS takes into account when modulating brake pressure. The proper use of ABS is to apply the brakes with full force and let the ABS do its job. Motorcycle ABS does not know when you are cornering, and I think it would very likely cause a sideways slide even under moderate cornering. I think it's more accurate to say "doesn't work" than anything else. If anyone out there has ABS, you know how to find out. Anyone game? > On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:20:07 -0500, "J. Clarke" > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > If anyone out there has ABS, you know how to find out. Anyone game? Nope. That, at least, has already been established. >>> On 20 Nov, 15:33, "tomor...@erols.com" >>> <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > forces > that the ABS takes into account when modulating brake pressure. Which cars are these? ABS prevents lockup. That's ALL it does. There are other systems that have sensors for "lateral and rotational forces" but those systems are not ABS. > The proper use of ABS is to apply the brakes with full force and let > the ABS do its job. No, the proper use of ABS is to brake however you ordinarily brake and if the surface has less traction than you expected then ABS may save your butt. > Motorcycle ABS does not know when you are > cornering, Neither does car ABS. > and I think it would very likely cause a sideways slide > even under moderate cornering. So you're better off to just lock it and keep it locked up? Why don't you try that and let us know how it works out for you? > I think it's more accurate to say > "doesn't work" than anything else. > > If anyone out there has ABS, you know how to find out. Anyone game? Signature-- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) >> Very different situation. ABS on a car will prevent a sideways slide >> caused by braking. Cars have sensors for lateral and rotational [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >There are other systems that have sensors for "lateral and rotational >forces" but those systems are not ABS. Those sensors are inputs for the ABS system. When you ask "which cars", that is a valid question. There are probably still cars with very basic ABS, and those would be a fair comparison with bikes. >> The proper use of ABS is to apply the brakes with full force and let >> the ABS do its job. > >No, the proper use of ABS is to brake however you ordinarily brake and >if the surface has less traction than you expected then ABS may save >your butt. I disagree, but I'm talking only about intentional aggressive braking. If you "need" to stop now, correct use is full effort on the brake lever or peda under all conditions and on all surfaces. Although I believe ABS actually increases stopping distance on washboard surfaces. >> Motorcycle ABS does not know when you are >> cornering, > >Neither does car ABS. And I agree that on basic systems it does not. >> and I think it would very likely cause a sideways slide >> even under moderate cornering. > >So you're better off to just lock it and keep it locked up? Why don't >you try that and let us know how it works out for you? That's the point - ABS is supposed to prevent lockup under most conditions. So you can't choose to lock it up. >>> Very different situation. ABS on a car will prevent a sideways >>> slide [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Those sensors are inputs for the ABS system. If it has "those sensors" then it's a stability control system or a traction control system. > When you ask "which > cars", that is a valid question. There are probably still cars with [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > That's the point - ABS is supposed to prevent lockup under most > conditions. So you can't choose to lock it up. And why would anyone _want_ to lock it up on pavement? Signature-- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) > >>> Very different situation. ABS on a car will prevent a sideways > >>> slide [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > And why would anyone _want_ to lock it up on pavement? Because the black streaks look cool. > > >>> Very different situation. ABS on a car will prevent a sideways > > >>> slide [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Because the black streaks look cool. AH! You're talking about the crowd that never outgrew sliding the back of their bicycle only now they lock up the brakes on anything with wheels. Yeah those kids, locking breaks or running loud pipes. -- Keith > > > >>> Very different situation. ABS on a car will prevent a sideways > > > >>> slide [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > of their bicycle only now they lock up the brakes on anything with > wheels. Yeah those kids, locking breaks or running loud pipes. Wot ? You use the brakes instead of the gas for the J turn when stopping your motorcycle at traffic lights ? On Nov 21, 12:10 pm, Rob Kleinschmidt <Rkleinsch1216...@aol.com> wrote: > Wot ? You use the brakes instead of the gas for the J turn > when stopping your motorcycle at traffic lights ? J turns are for kids, bootleggers and morons. I deny any and all acsusasions of my ever bootlegging. Intentional or otherwise...anyway you can't prove a thing. -- Keith Bootleggers motto, they can't catch what they can't see and they can't see if your faster. > That's the point - ABS is supposed to prevent lockup under most > conditions. So you can't choose to lock it up. Actually, on an adventure bike such as a BMW GS, that's exactly what you want to do sometimes. That's why BMW at least gives you a shutoff feature and nobody in their right mind would take an ABS bike into the dirt without it. Picture yourself on a long dirt downhill when the ABS decides that the wheel is rotating too slowly. "I can't let you do that Dave" as Hal the computer once said. > On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:20:07 -0500, "J. Clarke" >> Nobody ever claimed that it would stop a sideways slide. It won't on >> a car either. So what? > Very different situation. ABS on a car will prevent a sideways slide > caused by braking. Actually it is quite possible to throw a car into a sideways slide even with ABS. SignatureThey must find it difficult - those who have taken authority as the Truth, rather than Truth as the authority. - G. Massey http://911research.wtc7.net http://stj911.org > <tomorrowerolsdot...@yahoo.com> wrote: > <snip> >> Thanks for the update. Nice to have some facts injected into a reeky >> debate. > I couldn't understand, myself, why so many people were vehement that > it *had* to work, when it was bleedin' obvious that the forces on the > tyres were lateral, and ABS was not going to prevent a sideways slide. > But, yes. No one claimed that ABS would prevent a sideways slide. We said that rolling tires provide better rider control than locked tires whether traveling in a straight line or traveling around a bend. The fact that you're still attempting to deny this is rather amusing. SignatureThey must find it difficult - those who have taken authority as the Truth, rather than Truth as the authority. - G. Massey http://911research.wtc7.net http://stj911.org http://stopthelie.com/1-hour_guide_to_911.html http://www.911truth.org Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed to raging infernos for hours on end. http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled demolition. http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html http://911research.wtc7.net http://stj911.org http://stopthelie.com/1-hour_guide_to_911.html http://www.911truth.org Ever wonder who benefits from the 700 MILLION U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq? http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21 "They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of warfare or morality." -bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq. http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm http://www.commondreams.org/ http://thirdworldtraveler.com/ "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr. "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918) Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron... "The new America, born in sin and arrogance, delusional in Manifest Destiny, bred in overabundant gluttony, consumerist and materialist, fathered by George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and the Cabal of Criminality, a country flocked by sheeple, ignorant and conditioned, indifferent to a world growing up around it, living delusions of empire and of omnipotence, building hatred against it and its policies throughout the planet, slowly dumbing down its citizens, losing its edge in the sciences and arts, producing a nation of acquiescent automatons brainwashed to never question authority and always faithfully follow the crimes of governance." - Manuel Valenzuela |
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