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Motorcycle Forum / General / Motorcycles / November 2008Slaughtered HOG
MSN Money http://atu.ca/1ac1b America has a strong -- and growing -- used motorcycle market. Add a plunging economy to that, and the road is getting a little rough for Harley-Davidson these days. Harley shares have taken a beating lately, falling 41% in less than three weeks. Shares are down 70% year to date. Sure, the stock looks cheap, but analysts warn that the earnings potential for the company is unclear. One reason is that core Harley buyers are simply getting older. Only 12% of buyers are under 35, and long-term demand will slow as baby boomers "exit their peak riding years," wrote a JPMorgan analyst in a recent client note. The analyst expects motorcycle registrations to drop 14.7% next year in the U.S. and 4.2% internationally. Harley also made bad business decisions. It sold bikes to buyers who clearly couldn't afford it, handing out $20,000 motorcycles with no money down, according to BusinessWeek http://atu.ca/f5e5 . And now, a lot of subprime borrowers simply can't, or won't, repay those risky bike loans. That's led to concerns about the credit rating for Harley's financial services unit. Standard & Poor's has placed Harley on "CreditWatch Negative" status and will meet with management with concerns. Harley is responding by cutting back shipments to retailers, in hopes that it will reduce its inventory levels. The company has said that earnings will drop about 18% in 2008 -- the second straight year of decline after 20 years of growth, according to Standard & Poor's. Harley shares are in the $13 range now http://atu.ca/5176 and option traders expect the stock to drop below $10 by Dec. 19. > MSN Money http://atu.ca/1ac1b > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > http://atu.ca/f5e5 . And now, a lot of subprime borrowers > simply can't, or won't, repay those risky bike loans. Personally, I refuse to pay car money for a lawnmower with wheels. I was in the Harley dealership the other day, and the salesperson showed me a $38,000 motorcycle. I commented that that represented at least 38 cars for me. My current ride is worth maybe $1,500 - $2,000. That is enough for a motorcycle. $20,000 for a motorcycle? $38,000 for a motorcycle? No way. Yep, looks like an option play ... > Personally, I refuse to pay car money for a lawnmower with wheels. I was > in the Harley dealership the other day, and the salesperson showed me a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Yep, looks like an option play ... I am not one to pay much for a car either, after all, all they do is depreciate! All the wife wants is something dependable, that is not ugly! Now a motorcycle is different to me, and luckily my wife too. We both enjoy riding to the point that it is our main means of entertainment during the summer months. We don't have a problem paying over $20k for a motorcycle as it is our main means of transportation all summer, trips, shopping, what have you. My wife's car will get less than 4,000 miles in a year, the motorcycle 3-4 times that. Also for us spending $1,000-$2,000 for a motorcycle would be pretty tough to do as it is impractical to pack up and ride two up for a week straight on much less than a touring bike. Sure you can do it, but I draw the line at comfort and safety. Even a good used Gold Wing will set you back $5,000. Plus riding 1/2 way across the country on an older motorcycle seems like a good way to get a ride in a tow truck. It all depends on your priorities!  SignaturePoorUB '05 Ultra Classic >> Personally, I refuse to pay car money for a lawnmower with wheels. I was >> in the Harley dealership the other day, and the salesperson showed me a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I am not one to pay much for a car either, after all, all they do is >depreciate! All the wife wants is something dependable, that is not ugly! And she chose you .... why, exactly ??? SignatureClick here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!! www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/ Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm >>I am not one to pay much for a car either, after all, all they do is >>depreciate! All the wife wants is something dependable, that is not ugly! > > And she chose you .... why, exactly ??? 'cuz I am dependable, and damn handsome! SignaturePoorUB '05 Ultra Classic > > Personally, I refuse to pay car money for a lawnmower with wheels. I was > > in the Harley dealership the other day, and the salesperson showed me a [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > motorcycle would be pretty tough to do as it is impractical to pack up and > ride two up for a week straight on much less than a touring bike. Bull...get TWO motorcycles and double the fun. I stopped likeing touring bikes in the late 80's when the GL1500 came out and it looked and was acessorized out like damn Accord. Now the GL1800 is hooked up even better than a cage AND costs more . Piss on 'em. The wife and I can get by without that crap. From ABS to GPS we don't need it. Shaft drive water cool adn for less than $2k when I bought my bike. >Sure you can do it, but I draw the line at comfort and safety. Even a good used Gold > Wing will set you back $5,000. ROTFLMAO!!! You are rich... what saftey issues? I OWN a Goldwing and I paid all of LESS than $2k for it. I've owned it since 2001 when it was OLDER than all the soldiers in my squad and most of me fellow squad leaders. 8^) Runs like a champ, handles decent for it's vintage AND nothing on it I don't need i.e. windshield, fairyfairing, hardbags, tail bags, cb, sattilite radio, AM/FM, GPS, heated anything...or any of the bull and BULLSHIT options put on touring bikes today. >Plus riding 1/2 way across the country on an > older motorcycle seems like a good way to get a ride in a tow truck. Well then I guess you either don'te know much a bout Honda's or older bikes. > It all depends on your priorities! Riding without some c.nt in marketing or styling f.cking up a perfectly good motorcycle with "farkles" and other folderol I don't want, don't need and frankly find ridiculous. Touring bike have become STUPID looking... > > "Jujitsu Lizard" <jujitsu.liz...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Touring bike have become STUPID looking... I'm 100% with Greg on this one. If you're able to and ride a lot and enjoy it a lot, it makes more sense to spend a few buck on a good motorcycle than a car. You'll get more enjoyment out of the bike, whereas the car is just a means to get you from point A to point B. It's funny how common it is for people to spend the more on cars and trucks which they use less than some of us do our bikes, yet no one bats an eye at that. Myself, I'd rather have a cheap, old truck and some nice bikes, than the other way around... In fact, that IS what I have! <g> > > > "Jujitsu Lizard" <jujitsu.liz...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > Myself, I'd rather have a cheap, old truck and some nice bikes, than > the other way around... In fact, that IS what I have! <g> Smarty pants...almost. Mine isn't expensive, cheap to maintain and it does anything I ask except for wheelies. I COULD do them but the work to get the power would reduce reliability. So I call it a wash...you can get a budget priced bike that does as good as the rest and better than most. BTDT and I wouldn't sell it for any price. -- Keith "Road Glidin' Don" <d.langkd@gmail.com> wrote in news:a5cce038-a29f-4cdf- 9a92-b9e6e2159f73@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com: > It's funny how common it is for people to spend the more on cars and > trucks which they use less than some of us do our bikes, yet no one > bats an eye at that. > Myself, I'd rather have a cheap, old truck and some nice bikes, than > the other way around... In fact, that IS what I have! <g> Finny, my last two bikes (not counting the Sporty) and last two four wheel vehicles have all been in the same price range. The car and Jeep I'll probably keep a long, long time. The bike maybe 5 years or so. I want all my vehicles to be reliable thanks. I spend almost half the year inside my Jeep. Then it sits for half the year. SignatureBob Mann Cap'n, ah need moor pow'r. > "Road Glidin' Don" <d.langkd@gmail.com> wrote in news:a5cce038-a29f-4cdf- > 9a92-b9e6e2159f73@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > The car and Jeep I'll probably keep a long, long time. > The bike maybe 5 years or so. My old pickup is 11 years old and has 62000 miles on it. In that time frame, I have probably put over 100,000 miles on my various m/c. And if I had my way about it, the pickup would have zero and the m/c a zillion miles! Now in that same time frame I have logged over 1.3 million miles in the semi, but them miles were not all that much fun. Mike F. caspr > It's funny how common it is for people to spend the more on cars and > trucks which they use less than some of us do our bikes, yet no one > bats an eye at that. > Myself, I'd rather have a cheap, old truck and some nice bikes, than > the other way around... In fact, that IS what I have! <g> My bike cost me six times what the truck did ... OTOH , I splurged when we got the wife a newer vehicle . Her mini-SUV cost two thirds as much as the bike . SignatureSnag sometimes ya gotta shovel manure to pay the bills > "Jujitsu Lizard" <jujitsu.liz...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > motorcycle would be pretty tough to do as it is impractical to pack up and > ride two up for a week straight on much less than a touring bike. Bull...get TWO motorcycles and double the fun. I stopped likeing touring bikes in the late 80's when the GL1500 came out and it looked and was acessorized out like damn Accord. Now the GL1800 is hooked up even better than a cage AND costs more . Piss on 'em. The wife and I can get by without that crap. From ABS to GPS we don't need it. Shaft drive water cool adn for less than $2k when I bought my bike. >Sure you can do it, but I draw the line at comfort and safety. Even a good >used Gold > Wing will set you back $5,000. ROTFLMAO!!! You are rich... what saftey issues? I OWN a Goldwing and I paid all of LESS than $2k for it. I've owned it since 2001 when it was OLDER than all the soldiers in my squad and most of me fellow squad leaders. 8^) Runs like a champ, handles decent for it's vintage AND nothing on it I don't need i.e. windshield, fairyfairing, hardbags, tail bags, cb, sattilite radio, AM/FM, GPS, heated anything...or any of the bull and BULLSHIT options put on touring bikes today. >Plus riding 1/2 way across the country on an > older motorcycle seems like a good way to get a ride in a tow truck. Well then I guess you either don'te know much a bout Honda's or older bikes. > It all depends on your priorities! Riding without some c.nt in marketing or styling f.cking up a perfectly good motorcycle with "farkles" and other folderol I don't want, don't need and frankly find ridiculous. Touring bike have become STUPID looking... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bar hopping, or riding single for a short trip, no problem. Wife will not ride her own, need a good two up rig with bags and trunk. Absolute Junk GW's go for $2k around here. A decent one is $5k. I have beat myself up riding without a windshield for years, not giving up my windshield and fairing. Bags, trunk are much better than strapping on some duffle bag, plus two up space is a premium. We ride quite a few 400-500 mile days, a couple 700-800 mile days every year. I refuse to ride two up, looking like the Beverly Hillbillies with packs and duffles strapped all over the bike. Plus once you dump it in a hard back you never have to worry about a strap breaking and something falling off, or worse yet, getting wrapped up in the back wheel. (happened to me years back!) Keep in mind all I rode were old Hondas for the last 30 years! Everyone is entitled to their opinions, me, I like my touring bike! As for being rich, what do you own for cars, pickups? I don't have a vehicle,other than the bike. Company supplies me with a work truck that I have very limited use of. Wife drives a new to us '96 Blazer with a ton of miles. Last guy that busted my chops about riding a $20K motorcycle hopped in his $50,000 pickup when he drove away! SignaturePoorUB '05 Ultra Classic >Last guy that busted my chops about riding a $20K motorcycle hopped >in his $50,000 pickup when he drove away! Exactly. > MSN Money http://atu.ca/1ac1b > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > and option traders expect the stock to drop below $10 by > Dec. 19. Thats good news for those about to buy. HD will have to eventually lower prices and cut back on profits. |
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