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Motorcycle Forum / General / Sportbikes / September 2004Why do Harleys suck?
When I bought my SV1000, I sorta considered the Buell XB12R. I steered away, mostly due to the resale value, and the reports of problems, all of none I know of first hand. I also remember my uncle Jim, who had bought an AMC manufactured Harley, and cursed it all the way back to the dealership. What's up with those things? Are they as bad as you all some time portray them to be, or have they gotten better? And if they are that bad, why can't good ole' American's make an acceptable product? > When I bought my SV1000, I sorta considered the Buell XB12R. I steered > away, mostly due to the resale value, and the reports of problems, all of > none I know of first hand. yeah...resale on Buells is in the pits....Steve being our local experience for buying $12G bikes for $3G's because their previous owners thought so highly of them. > I also remember my uncle Jim, who had bought an AMC manufactured Harley, > and > cursed it all the way back to the dealership. yeah...but they don't run the place anymore. Plus, when they go to design an engine anymore, they go ask cage manufacturers how to do it. Wonder idea that....ask OTHER people who build overweight, underpowered clunkers how to not build an overweight, underpowered 2 wheeled clunker. > What's up with those things? Are they as bad as you all some time portray > them to be, or have they gotten better? They have gotten better. So much better, in fact, that Hardley makes more money selling its logo on t-shirts than on selling overpriced, $20G bikes. Makes you wonder how incompetent they can be. > And if they are that bad, why can't > good ole' American's make an acceptable product? We do. Just not motorcycles. >> When I bought my SV1000, I sorta considered the Buell XB12R. I steered >> away, mostly due to the resale value, and the reports of problems, all of [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >We do. Just not motorcycles. Ever here of ATK? Regards Michael H. Fell > >> And if they are that bad, why can't > >> good ole' American's make an acceptable product? > > > >We do. Just not motorcycles. > > Ever here of ATK? No. They are pretty good American manufacturers of motorcycles? And you have what for a dirtbike? A Yamaha? Must not be all that good of a bike, you being a Made In America fan and all? They don't make the engines, which seem to be the core of the bulk of Harley compaints. > > >> And if they are that bad, why can't > > >> good ole' American's make an acceptable product? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Must not be all that good of a bike, you being a Made In > America fan and all? >> >> And if they are that bad, why can't >> >> good ole' American's make an acceptable product? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Must not be all that good of a bike, you being a Made In >America fan and all? Troy if I were to get serious about MX bikes I wouldn't have bought an 83 YZ 250 for $80.00. The fact is America can and does make a great motorcycle. Check out the ATK 700. The call it "The intimidator". This bike would knock you on yer rear end so fast you wouldnt know what hit you. Imagine a 238 lb 700 cc two stroke single. This bike has more mid range then you know what to do with. http://www.atkusa.com/bikes/2004Models/04Intimidator700.htm Regards Michael H. Fell > Troy if I were to get serious about MX bikes I wouldn't have bought an > 83 YZ 250 for $80.00. The fact is America can and does make a great [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Regards > Michael H. Fell Shouldn't this sentence read: "They call it . . ."? Well. Well. I guess we all aren't perfect. >> Troy if I were to get serious about MX bikes I wouldn't have bought an >> 83 YZ 250 for $80.00. The fact is America can and does make a great [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Shouldn't this sentence read: "They call it . . ."? >Well. Well. I guess we all aren't perfect. LOL, getting a little frustrated there Kurt? :-) I can see you are becoming obsessive here. Step away from yer Mommies computer. Stick around long enough and I will bury you verbally the same way I do TTT everyday here. You are way out of your league there buddy.:-) Regards Michael H. Fell >From: mfell >Stick >around long enough and I will bury you verbally You are becoming much better at this stuff. >the same way I do TTT >everyday here. Let's not get carried away. >You are way out of your league there buddy.:-) I agree, I think he's better off at the picture site. >>From: mfell > >>Stick >>around long enough and I will bury you verbally > >You are becoming much better at this stuff. Why thank you Saddle. >>the same way I do TTT >>everyday here. > >Let's not get carried away. Troy is a bit of a challenge I will admit but, he always gets it in the end. :-) >>You are way out of your league there buddy.:-) > >I agree, I think he's better off at the picture site. I don't think he will be around much longer Saddle. Regards Michael H. Fell > >From: mfell > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > I agree, I think he's better off at the picture site. Since you mentioned the picture site, I'd love to take on Miky visually too. Kurt "Remember. I'm not always right, but... ...No. I am always right" > >> Troy if I were to get serious about MX bikes I wouldn't have bought an > >> 83 YZ 250 for $80.00. The fact is America can and does make a great [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Regards > Michael H. Fell But you are JUST a construction worker with drum sticks who has a deaf dad. Besides. Bring on your verbal abuse. I will take it. Keeps me from getting bored with all these Hurricanes around. I don't know TTT but I'll back him 'everyday here'.  SignatureKurt "Remember. I'm not always right, but... ...No. I am always right" >> >> Troy if I were to get serious about MX bikes I wouldn't have bought an >> >> 83 YZ 250 for $80.00. The fact is America can and does make a great [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >Keeps me from getting bored with all these Hurricanes around. I don't know TTT but I'll back him >'everyday here'. I won't verbally abuse you. I will only verbally out wit you. :-) You seem like a nice guy. I am the one who has lost a little in the hearing department not my Dad. Being a drummer since 1976 has a negitive effect on my hearing. That and those wonderful Marshall amps. Your best bet is to not back TTT. :-) He bashes Buells and Harleys along with street riders that like to ride fast. When offered a challenge at the race track from one Buell rider he gets all scared and says he can't make it.:-) That said Troy is a nice guy. Hopefully I can get him to venture out to Wisconsin so he can see the Buell up close and personal.:-) Regards Michael H. Fell > That said Troy is a nice guy. Hopefully > I can get him to venture out to Wisconsin so he can see the Buell up > close and personal.:-) Think between now and whenever I show up you can get one running? Any one? > Your best bet is to not back TTT. :-) He bashes Buells and Harleys yup.... > along with street riders that like to ride fast. no Mike...more like street riders who don't know what fast is and confuse it with what they do on Sunday mornings between rock walls and guiderails.... >When offered a > challenge at the race track from one Buell rider he gets all scared > and says he can't make it.:-) And when he offers to pick the challenge back up, posts it to the Buell riders website with 2 weeks notice he gets no takers in return. And the only taker he has gotten to date is a accomplished club racer who admits his Buell self destructs occasionally.... >> Your best bet is to not back TTT. :-) He bashes Buells and Harleys > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > And when he offers to pick the challenge back up, posts it to the Buell > riders website with 2 weeks notice he gets no takers in return. Again, you seem to make the impression *NO ONE* with a Buell wants to race you. You came in there, made a challenge a while back, then didn't bite when people took your challenge. They even offered to pay your track fee if they didn't lap your SV in 8 laps. Boy, I figured with your intense hatred for everything Buell, you'd have bitten harder than a Rottweiler. Nope, almost IMMEDIATELY after the challenge was made, you sure shut your big mouth a bunch. Didn'tcha there troll? And it wasn't two weeks notice. It was 10 days. But who's counting... Oh wait, you were. You expected everyone to drop their schedules with 10 days notice to come out an play. Yet when you're confronted, you just couldn't make the time... > And the only > taker he has gotten to date is a accomplished club racer who admits his > Buell self destructs occasionally.... Ahh, that reading comprehnsion problem rears it's ugly head again. Or are you just blatently lying yet again there Troy? I've corrected you on this already in here, yet here you are, lying about it again. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Try to stick to the truth there from here on out, k? If it's just a memory problem, I'd suggest taking your ginko biloba, and staying away from those krispy kremes. > and >staying away from those krispy kremes. You are asking alot of Troy there Steve.:-) Those things are awesome.:-) Regards Michael H. Fell >From: "Simpledog" >When I bought my SV1000, I sorta considered the Buell XB12R. I steered >away, mostly due to the resale value Don't confuse Buells with Harleys. Harleys seem to hold their value quite well. >I also remember my uncle Jim, who had bought an AMC manufactured Harley, and >cursed it all the way back to the dealership. That was a different time. Quality is much improved from that era even if the bikes are still as heavy and slow. >>From: "Simpledog" > >>When I bought my SV1000, I sorta considered the Buell XB12R. I steered >>away, mostly due to the resale value If that were the reason you were buying a bike you should have bought a Harley. You won't get squat for a used SV 1000. >Don't confuse Buells with Harleys. Harleys seem to hold their value quite well. Yes they do although you would have a lot more fun on the Buell. Most Buell guys keep their bikes so resale is not the issue. That said the SV 1000 is not flying off the shelves either. They don't sell many of them new much less used. The SV 1000 has no resale due to the fact you got to sell them first. Hence the abundance of older models sitting on the dealers floor blowing them out for $6500.00. >>I also remember my uncle Jim, who had bought an AMC manufactured Harley, and >>cursed it all the way back to the dealership. > >That was a different time. Quality is much improved from that era even if the >bikes are still as heavy and slow. AMC made Harleys? Thats a new one. I think you mean AMF. There have been very few problems with the new Buells and they have had zero recalls. The motor has been rock solid reliable. The old Buells had issues though but, then again those were made in 2002 and prior. Regards Michael H. Fell Right, AMF. I still want a XB12R, I just couldn't justify it being 5,000 bucks better than an SV1000. > >>From: "Simpledog" > > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Regards > Michael H. Fell > Right, AMF. > > I still want a XB12R, I just couldn't justify it being 5,000 bucks better > than an SV1000. Thats because it isn't worth $5G's more. I'm guessing it isn't worth $5G's OTD, but thats just a personal opinion on Buells in general. > >>From: "Simpledog" > > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > recalls. The motor has been rock solid reliable. The old Buells had > issues though but, then again those were made in 2002 and prior. Mike! Your engine almost fell out at speed! > > >>From: "Simpledog" > > > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > Mike! Your engine almost fell out at speed! that was not a motor problem per se, but a motor mount bolt problem. Those should probably be replaced every 10k miles or so. Thats no doubt fixed in the newer models. Phil Scott >> AMC made Harleys? Thats a new one. I think you mean AMF. There have >> been very few problems with the new Buells and they have had zero >> recalls. The motor has been rock solid reliable. The old Buells had >> issues though but, then again those were made in 2002 and prior. >> > Mike! Your engine almost fell out at speed! Hush now, Jim. He's repressing that memory. Who are we to forcefully throw reality in his face? ;) SignatureJamin Kortegard 2002 YZF-R1 / 2003 WRX "Hokey 600s and trackday usability are no match for a good literbike at your side, kid." - Michael > >> AMC made Harleys? Thats a new one. I think you mean AMF. There have > >> been very few problems with the new Buells and they have had zero [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Hush now, Jim. He's repressing that memory. Who are we to forcefully throw > reality in his face? ;) the motor was fine...its just the bolts in the frame and accessories that keep breaking. If I find a xr1200 cheap...with maybe a bunch of broken frame bolts etc..i will buy one...us old triumph riders, back in days of lucas electrics are used to that sort of thing...it adds adventure to the riding experience. Phil Scott > Hush now, Jim. He's repressing that memory. Who are we to forcefully throw > reality in his face? ;) Just watching the first (4th) Star Wars last night and something resonated with me. Had to skip backwards to replay it, but this is what I heard: Han Solo : Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. >> Hush now, Jim. He's repressing that memory. Who are we to forcefully >> throw [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Han Solo : Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good > blaster at your side, kid. That's the origin of it. SignatureAndrew 00 Speed Triple 00 Daytona >>> "Hokey 600s and trackday usability are no match >>> for a good literbike at your side, kid." [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > That's the origin of it. Yep. Thanks to Michael! :) SignatureJamin Kortegard 2002 YZF-R1 / 2003 WRX "Hokey 600s and trackday usability are no match for a good literbike at your side, kid." - Michael > >>From: "Simpledog" > > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Regards > Michael H. Fell Mike, Since you seem to be the SME on Buells, why doesn't Harley/Erik Buell use the V-Rod engine in the Buells? SignatureGary '01 SV650S '04 GSX-R750 Previous bikes: '88 GSX600 '87 GSX-R1100 '85 GS700ES '86 SP200 '80 KLX250 Send to motorcyclist at cox dot net to reply directly >> >>From: "Simpledog" >> > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Since you seem to be the SME on Buells, why doesn't Harley/Erik Buell use > the V-Rod engine in the Buells? The Vrod motor/tranny is a bit too big/heavy is what I heard. I'm SURE you'll see a version of the Vrod motor in a Buell product some day. It's inevitable. It is a superior motor, no doubt. And runs an honest 105-110HP at the rear wheel, VS about 90-95 for the current crop of XB12s. But torque is lower. > That was a different time. Quality is much improved from that era even if the > bikes are still as heavy and slow. Yeah, they work fine for their intended purpose, primarily "parade" riding. Spanky >> That was a different time. Quality is much improved from that era even if >the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Spanky A guy I work with rode his HD to Alsaka from Kenosha WI. Try that on your bike and let us know how the trip went.:-) Regards Michael H. Fell >From: mfell >A guy I work with rode his HD to Alsaka from Kenosha WI. Try that on >your bike and let us know how the trip went.:-) Why would that be a big deal? Gary Eagan just did Prudhoe Bay Alaska (Northern Tip) to Miami Florida in 100 hours aboard a Duc Multistrada earlier this year. He's won at least one Ironbutt event on a Duc ST4. Hell, I rode to WV and ran around the state for four days (~2400 miles) then rode home just this past July. That had to be at least as much riding and I'm a pansy. > A guy I work with rode his HD to Alsaka from Kenosha WI. Try that on > your bike and let us know how the trip went.:-) Mike, you always "know someone" or "heard of someone" or remember a story from your great uncles buddy who knew a guy...when the hell are you gonna get outta the house, the neighborhood, the freaking COUNTY for cryin out loud and go do something for yourself already? Then you can say...."gee....when I was in Alaska, above the Arctic Circle, what did I find but......." http://home.comcast.net/~f4boy/alaska/mark21.JPG but no...you can't take a picture of a wrecked Hardley above the Arctic Circle because that would require you TO LEAVE THE FREAKIN COUNTY sometime.... > http://home.comcast.net/~f4boy/alaska/mark21.JPG > > but no...you can't take a picture of a wrecked Hardley above > the Arctic Circle because that would require you TO LEAVE > THE FREAKIN COUNTY sometime.... Wadda the note attached to the tank say? Greg >> http://home.comcast.net/~f4boy/alaska/mark21.JPG >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Wadda the note attached to the tank say? > Greg I think it was a note from his riding buddies explaining where they were going to be and when they would look for him. The rider of this particular bike had to be flown back to a hospital in Fairbanks. The other guy hitched a ride with an RV up to Prudhoe Bay and was trying to figure out from there what to do. He was using a towel as a sling for his broken collarbone ( he and others suspected ). > When I bought my SV1000, I sorta considered the Buell XB12R. I steered > away, mostly due to the resale value, and the reports of problems, all of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > them to be, or have they gotten better? And if they are that bad, why can't > good ole' American's make an acceptable product? The HD's have gotten real good and reliable... they are just slow, and some a pain in the a.s to ride very far. HD has a magic formula there... its the most profitable bike mfgr in the world...regardless sport bikes etc handle better. many people ride for show...and charisma..thats the HD market. its a huge market, and killer profitable. they are not going to be screwing that up anytime soon. Phil Scott Hardley's are a function of their market audience. They are fat, heavy, old fashioned bikes, for fat, heavy, old fashioned guys. I have had hardley stock for years - I don't mind taking the money of jerks.. > When I bought my SV1000, I sorta considered the Buell XB12R. I steered > away, mostly due to the resale value, and the reports of problems, all of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > can't > good ole' American's make an acceptable product? > Hardley's are a function of their market audience. They are fat, heavy, > old fashioned bikes, for fat, heavy, old fashioned guys. Elegant! All of Harley's marketing distilled to one short sentence. You should sell it to them. I can see it now: "Here at Harley Davidson, we sell fat, heavy, old fashioned bikes to fat, heavy, old fashioned guys". As you suggested, I was all set to sell my line to Hardley but realising that I would be chased for the rest of my life by 10,000 angry, fat morons, I changed my mind :) >> Hardley's are a function of their market audience. They are fat, heavy, >> old fashioned bikes, for fat, heavy, old fashioned guys. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > "Here at Harley Davidson, we sell fat, heavy, old fashioned bikes to fat, > heavy, old fashioned guys". > Hardley's are a function of their market audience. They are fat, heavy, old > fashioned bikes, for fat, heavy, old fashioned guys. Who in America isn't fat these days? > I have had hardley stock for years - I don't mind taking the money of > jerks.. >> Hardley's are a function of their market audience. They are fat, heavy, > old >> fashioned bikes, for fat, heavy, old fashioned guys. > > Who in America isn't fat these days? Our super models aren't fat. And they'll kick any other countries' super models' a.ses in a cat fight, any day. (It's too wet and cold to ride today) > When I bought my SV1000, I sorta considered the Buell XB12R. I > steered away, mostly due to the resale value, and the reports of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > portray them to be, or have they gotten better? And if they are that > bad, why can't good ole' American's make an acceptable product? I don't think they do suck anymore, I know a few happy Harley owners. The later models seem to be just fine. But most of them are garage queens. One guy did 20k in one year on his HD with no complaints. But if they tried to make a bike that revs to 15k it might self-destruct after a mile or so. Leave the high-performance stuff to the experts oveseas I guess. When you compare em dollar to dollar you'd never buy a Buell, no friggen way. The SV is twice the bike. It just doesn't have as much soul. SignatureGreg Sumner Seattle WA '03 CBR 600RR >From: "Inlaw Biker" >The SV is twice the bike. It just doesn't have as much soul. That's the part that rattles your fillings loose at stoplights. >> When I bought my SV1000, I sorta considered the Buell XB12R. I >> steered away, mostly due to the resale value, and the reports of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >later models seem to be just fine. But most of them are garage queens. One >guy did 20k in one year on his HD with no complaints. My Dads HD has over 70,000 miles on it. It runs great. Stock with super loud straight pipes. > But if they tried to >make a bike that revs to 15k it might self-destruct after a mile or so. >Leave the high-performance stuff to the experts oveseas I guess. Ducati?:-) >When you compare em dollar to dollar you'd never buy a Buell, no friggen >way. The SV is twice the bike. It just doesn't have as much soul. Actually it has no soul. It is a no frills motorcycle. They cost little and run for a long time. If I were to buy a Jap bike that would be the one although I don;t like water cooling. My MX bike is water cooled. Just more things to break on it. Regards Michael H. Fell >From: mfell >My Dads HD has over 70,000 miles on it. It runs great. Stock with >super loud straight pipes. It'd run much better with 2 into 1s and he'd have fewer enemies too. >>From: mfell > >>My Dads HD has over 70,000 miles on it. It runs great. Stock with >>super loud straight pipes. > >It'd run much better with 2 into 1s and he'd have fewer enemies too. My Dad is 69 years old and has many friends. Has been riding since 1952 give or take a year. On an HD straight pipes are cool. Also, he scares all the deer away when we go riding. Granted it doesn't help me since I am ahead of him.:-) Some Gold wing rider gave my Dad a piece of his mind about his straight pipes. My Dad gave the moron a well deserved up close and personal verbal lashing. My Dad has been running straights since the 1950s and no moron on some Jap couch on wheels is gonna change him or his motorcycle. Regards Michael H. Fell >From: mfell >My Dad is 69 years old and has many friends. They're the deaf ones. >On an HD straight pipes are cool. If providing less power and being obnoxiously noisy is cool, then cool they are. >Some Gold wing rider gave my Dad a piece >of his mind about his straight pipes. My Dad gave the moron a well >deserved up close and personal verbal lashing. How very impressive. >My Dad has been >running straights since the 1950s and no moron on some Jap couch on >wheels is gonna change him or his motorcycle. Yeah Mike, wouldn't want him to try another bike before he knocked it, right? Hi guys, I haven't posted here before, but I appreciate this group as a valuable resource for all motorcyclists. I have to comment, though, on the irrational antipathy between HD riders and sport motorcyclists, specially those riding japanese iron. I myself currently ride an old Ducati 907IE, which was the first incarnation of the modern ST2/ST3/ST4 line of Ducati sport tourers...not a knee-dragging sportbike by any means..but unmistakenly a sports-oriented italian bike (red to boot!)I've also ridden Triumphs (Bonnies and even a modern Sprint RS) and I've never felt any need to put down either japanese or HD riders solely based on their motorcycle choice...I figure we get enough misery from cagers to start the same crap with fellow motorcyclists. There're a.shole HD riders as well as ashole european and japanese sportbike riders...I'm willing to bet that there must be a.shole Bultaco, Parilla, Benelli, Ossa, Vincent, Norton, etc...riders...personalities are not defined by what you ride, fellows...we're all human beings and we all have a certain esthetic and like certain sounds, images, etc...that extends to motorcycles as well...as my teenage son would say 'man!...don't be hatin' JC > >From: mfell > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Yeah Mike, wouldn't want him to try another bike before he knocked it, right? >There're a.shole HD riders as well as ashole >european and japanese sportbike riders...I'm willing to bet that there >must be a.shole Bultaco, Parilla, Benelli, Ossa, Vincent, Norton, >etc...riders...personalities are not defined by what you ride, >fellows... Hmmm sounds like yer confused or something. I think most people, including myself, whether they admit it or not, have nothing against the people who ride Harley's (a.sholes as you refer to them) but rather don't share the same interest in their choice of rides. Sure there are a.sholes who ride Harley's and a.sholes who ride rice bikes and there are very cool people who ride Harley's and cool people who ride rice bikes. I don't look at somebody riding a Harley or Buell as an a.shole but rather as somebody who bought an overpriced paperweight:-D If HD built a sexy, fast, light, well handleing, reliable, affordable bike that made me drool, I would not be opposed to buying one. Would be cool if the US of A could build such a bike............ So I wait. Chad 2003 R1 > >There're a.shole HD riders as well as ashole >>european and japanese sportbike riders...I'm willing to bet that there [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > them) > but rather don't share the same interest in their choice of rides. I ain't confused , pard...I DID NOT refer to Harley owners as a.sholes. They're merely folks who have a different esthetic than you...Harleys are not advertised as being state of the art sportbikes (not even Buells do that)..the Harley formula is based on tradition more than anything else. the big, lazy V-twin, the sound, even the vibration..that's what sells... > I don't look at somebody riding a Harley or Buell as an a.shole but rather > as > somebody who bought an overpriced paperweight:-D To them it's exactly what they were looking for. > If HD built a sexy, fast, light, well handleing, reliable, affordable bike > that > made me drool, I would not be opposed to buying one. Would be cool if the > US > of A could build such a bike............ What makes you drool is very different than whay makes THEM drool. > So I wait. Keep on waitin'... HD ain't gona change a product that's making them rich. >> >There're a.shole HD riders as well as ashole >>>european and japanese sportbike riders...I'm willing to bet that there [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Keep on waitin'... HD ain't gona change a product that's making them rich. And they'd never have the profits they do now, if they had gone with the "nova" project. They just wouldn't have that "nostalgic" following they currently do. |||| There're a.shole HD riders as well as ashole |||| european and japanese sportbike riders...I'm willing to bet that [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] || Keep on waitin'... HD ain't gona change a product that's making || them rich. It's not the bikes that's making them rich, it's the T-shirts, do-rags and Lifetime H.O.G. memberships that they sucker those nancyboy software designers and dentists into buying. JD >|||| There're a.shole HD riders as well as ashole >|||| european and japanese sportbike riders...I'm willing to bet that [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > >JD Its called smart business. Honda and Ducati sell lots of shirts and leathers as well. Regards Michael H. Fell >From: mfell >Its called smart business. Honda and Ducati sell lots of shirts and >leathers as well. Paaleeze. >>From: mfell > >>Its called smart business. Honda and Ducati sell lots of shirts and >>leathers as well. > >Paaleeze. Corse superbikes in Sauk Prairie WI has a nice little clothing boutique and restaurant to go along with the Ducs they have for sale. Check out their appearal and gear catalog here: http://www.corsesuperbikes.com/catalog.asp?sid=03339044X9K26K2004J7I27I23JPMQ375R0 Regards Michael H. Fell >From: mfell >Corse superbikes in Sauk Prairie WI has a nice little clothing >boutique and restaurant to go along with the Ducs they have for sale. >Check out their appearal and gear catalog here: > >http://www.corsesuperbikes.com/catalog.asp?sid=03339044X9K26K2004J7I27I23JPMQ375R0 Yeah, but it's not a spit in the ocean compared to Harley apparel sales. >>From: mfell > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Yeah, but it's not a spit in the ocean compared to Harley apparel sales. Ducati is not a spit in the ocean compared to Harley sales when it come to motorcycles either. Regards Michael H. Fell >From: mfell >Ducati is not a spit in the ocean compared to Harley sales when it >come to motorcycles either. Perhaps, but the tee-shirt to bike ratio is much lower. >>From: mfell > >>Ducati is not a spit in the ocean compared to Harley sales when it >>come to motorcycles either. > >Perhaps, but the tee-shirt to bike ratio is much lower. My point is HD is very popular this is why they sell lots clothing and such. They sell more coffee cups, chrome oil filters, bandannas, and such then most as well. Despite what many think of HD I bet there are millions more throughout the world that like Harleys. A few sportbikers are not gonna hurt HD sales any. Personally I wouldn't own one but, I wish them the best due to the fact they are a very successful American company. Not many of those left anymore. Well that still make products here. Regards Michael H. Fell >From: mfell >My point is HD is very popular this is why they sell lots clothing and >such. The outlaw biker wannabe image is even more popular. But, the number of 5 year old HD bikes with < 2k miles that have "never been in the rain" is the most popular. On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 14:18:36 +0000, mfell2112*nospam* wrote: >>|||| There're a.shole HD riders as well as ashole >>|||| european and japanese sportbike riders...I'm willing to bet that [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > Regards > Michael H. Fell While it's smart business, and I'm sure other MC companies WISH they had the massive cult following that HD has(could you imagine a Honda, or Yamaha 100th anniversary? :) ). They aren't even close to selling the quantity of T-shirts/apparel that HD does. Walk into ANY bar, and count the T-Shirts. Then go outside and count how many hogs are sitting outside. I betcha the T-shirts outnumber the bike 20 to 1. Hell I went to a 'lil ride over the weekend. The HOG anual breast cancer ride(complete with numberous "Save the tits" T-shirts). There were close to 3000 bikes last I heard. There were more Jap bikes on the ride than Buells. In the parking lot, the *ONLY* Buells we saw were mine... >> >There're a.shole HD riders as well as ashole >>>european and japanese sportbike riders...I'm willing to bet that there [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >Keep on waitin'... HD ain't gona change a product that's making them rich. They made the Vrod. You may be correct but, every so often HD will build something that does not go along with their usaul crop of motorcycles. They have that wonderful Revolution motor just waiting to be transplanted into a Sport tourers frame. Also, Buell has that V rod motor and they are working to put that into production. We shall see on that. 140 rwhp is what they are getting out of the Revo motor. Put that in a Buell chassis and we would have something. Regards Michael H. Fell >>From: mfell > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Yeah Mike, wouldn't want him to try another bike before he knocked it, right? Ohh... You mean like Troy does? He endlessly knocks Buells, but has yet to ride one :) >From: Steve Mackay >Ohh... You mean like Troy does? >He endlessly knocks Buells, but has yet to ride one :) Exactly my point Steve, Mike is always busting T's balls (and somewhat rightly so) for not riding a Buell before he knocked it, then he turns around and defends his dad for behaving like an arrogant prick and dissin' non-obnoxiously noisy Harleys in the same way. > >>From: mfell > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > My Dad is 69 years old and has many friends. Has been riding since > 1952 give or take a year. On an HD straight pipes are cool. No, they suck. They suck they suck they suck. Fscking obnoxious things. > Also, he scares all the deer away when we go riding. Along with small children and people who would love to legislate motorcycles out of existence. Nice. > Granted it doesn't help me > since I am ahead of him.:-) Some Gold wing rider gave my Dad a piece > of his mind about his straight pipes. My Dad gave the moron a well > deserved up close and personal verbal lashing. My Dad has been > running straights since the 1950s and no moron on some Jap couch on > wheels is gonna change him or his motorcycle. Matter of opinion as to who the moron may be. Idiocy regarding noise runs rampant among the cruiser crowd. When I owned a HD, there was unbelievable pressure from "the gang" to "put some pipes on it". No thanks. SignatureKurt Kesler >From: Kurt Kesler >Idiocy regarding noise runs rampant among the cruiser crowd. When I >owned a HD, there was unbelievable pressure from "the gang" to "put some >pipes on it". > >No thanks. I can see wanting to pipe them as they are complete slugs without a little work. I'd just be a little more judicious in my selection. Something that actually increased power rather than lowered it and sounded throaty without causing acute deafness with each ride to the titty bar might be nice. >>From: Kurt Kesler > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >actually increased power rather than lowered it and sounded throaty without >causing acute deafness with each ride to the titty bar might be nice. My Dad rode his bike non stop to Savannah Georgia from Northeastern Illinois a few years ago. Increased power why? It is a cruiser fer crying out loud. They are designed to go slow. Regards Michael H. Fell >From: mfell >My Dad rode his bike non stop to Savannah Georgia from Northeastern >Illinois a few years ago. Increased power why? It is a cruiser fer >crying out loud. They are designed to go slow. Yeah, but a little trip around the ridiculous EPA regs will make them a lot more functional steeds. > My Dad rode his bike non stop to Savannah Georgia from Northeastern > Illinois a few years ago. Increased power why? It is a cruiser fer > crying out loud. They are designed to go slow. > > Regards > Michael H. Fell Funny you mentioned "Increase power. Why" I was speaking with some motor cops in Daytona Beach and noticed their HDs were LOUD. I asked them "Why does the department put loud pipes on the bikes?" They said that the HDs were so slow they needed everything they could come up with to make them faster. BTW. You know why so many law enforcement departments ride HDs? Because they are loaned (free) for one year and traded in. They just have to keep them cleaned. Can't pass that deal up. Kurt >> My Dad rode his bike non stop to Savannah Georgia from Northeastern >> Illinois a few years ago. Increased power why? It is a cruiser fer [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >one year and traded in. They just have to keep them cleaned. Can't pass that deal up. >Kurt Hey Kurt what are you about 21 or so? Straight pipes slow the bike down not speed them up. You are a very poor troll with a very low IQ. Go back to school and get educated if you want to debate or troll me.:-) Too many wrecks with a helmet?:-) Regards Michael H. Fell > >> My Dad rode his bike non stop to Savannah Georgia from Northeastern > >> Illinois a few years ago. Increased power why? It is a cruiser fer [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Regards > Michael H. Fell Hey Mike, Straight pipes make too much noise. NOBODY fools me about pipes saving lives and scaring dear. I had a bike with drag pipes years ago. I won't lie. I loved the sound. I've had many bikes over the years and love the loud sounds. Everybody I heard who puts on an aftermarket exhaust likes it for its loud sound. Why do so many Harleys have those Screaming Eagle pipes and the riders have to rev the f.ck out of them at lights? I'm not sure what trolling is. Could you please enlighten me? Yes. I want to DEBATE you. I just hope my IQ equates to my education. I started in with this group in a positive manner. One post was about my bike. The other was just a joke. YOU came in to prejudge me with not ONE clue about me. Since I know a little about you, your father and your hobbies, I feel I should give you some clues about me. FACT: Every thing you said above is wrong about me. Should I tell you more? Do you want to know what I ride and how I ride since this is a sportbike newsgroup? SignatureKurt "Remember. I'm not always right, but... ...No. I am always right" >> >>From: mfell >> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >No, they suck. They suck they suck they suck. Fscking obnoxious >things. My Dad has had offers of over $14,000 for his. The lowest Ultra classic you will find. Well for the most part I don't like cruisers. Not my type of bike due to my riding style. That said HDs do not suck. >> Also, he scares all the deer away when we go riding. > >Along with small children and people who would love to legislate >motorcycles out of existence. Nice. Yeah OK then you have the rice riding squids that go 110 down Green bay rd by my house and the morons head gets ripped off and was lodged in some cagers wheel well. This is why we have legislation. Speed kills loud pipes save lives. >> Granted it doesn't help me >> since I am ahead of him.:-) Some Gold wing rider gave my Dad a piece [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Matter of opinion as to who the moron may be. Hey I am a drummer. I like to make noise. If you don't like noise move to Alaska. >Idiocy regarding noise runs rampant among the cruiser crowd. When I >owned a HD, there was unbelievable pressure from "the gang" to "put some >pipes on it". > >No thanks. My buddy has a Guzzi 1100 sport with straight pipes and mega phones. It is as loud as my Dads bike. I don't mind it myself. As I said it scares the deer away. That is a good thing. Regards Michael H. Fell >From: mfell >This is why we have legislation. Speed >kills loud pipes save lives. MIKE! Please tell me you're joking or had a really bad day. >Hey I am a drummer. I like to make noise. If you don't like noise >move to Alaska. Or pass a law to behead loud obnoxious drummers. Don't sweat it, Repulicans will be in favor of this one. >My buddy has a Guzzi 1100 sport with straight pipes and mega phones. >It is as loud as my Dads bike. I don't mind it myself. As I said it >scares the deer away. That is a good thing. I've never heard anything remotely as noisy as a big twin with long, baffleless, straightpipes. > >From: mfell > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I've never heard anything remotely as noisy as a big twin with long, > baffleless, straightpipes. My GS450 had a Mac 2 into 1 meg. Baffle fell out once, and it was LOUD. Welded up a gixxer 1k midpipe and bolted on a Yosh RS-3. Ahhh...mucho better. SignatureKurt Kesler > > >From: mfell > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Welded up a gixxer 1k midpipe and bolted on a Yosh RS-3. Ahhh...mucho > better. Well I had a ZRX1100 with a Muzzy and the baffle fell out. I kinda liked it for a few weeks, fuckin' with my friends doing "fly bys" passing them at high speeds. Actually, they did NOT like that. I used to ride with a Chatter Box, was about a half mile ahead of my friends, riding in the mountains last year and I heard one of my friends say to the other rider "Can you hear Kurt passing again"? When I was up around 11k rpm, it was extremely loud. Once I did a pass of a tractor trailer 18 wheeler. A friend was behind me. When I went by him (I never noticed) he went off the road. Scared the sh.t out of him. Later, I felt bad. Kurt > >No, they suck. They suck they suck they suck. Fscking obnoxious things. > My Dad has had offers of over $14,000 for his. The lowest Ultra > classic you will find. Well for the most part I don't like cruisers. > Not my type of bike due to my riding style. That said HDs do not suck. Michael H. Fell WOW. $14k. For $10k I bought a state-of-the-art racing machine ZX10R. (brand new) For another $4k I bought an XR600R. With $14k I have two NEW bikes. 0 miles. > >> Also, he scares all the deer away when we go riding. > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Hey I am a drummer. I like to make noise. If you don't like noise > move to Alaska. Making noise is a good thing. > >Idiocy regarding noise runs rampant among the cruiser crowd. When I > >owned a HD, there was unbelievable pressure from "the gang" to "put some [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It is as loud as my Dads bike. I don't mind it myself. As I said it > scares the deer away. That is a good thing. Scaring dear is a good thing. My Dad has a good thing. > >> >>From: mfell > >> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > classic you will find. Well for the most part I don't like cruisers. > Not my type of bike due to my riding style. That said HDs do not suck. Clarification for you: Straight pipes suck, Mike. I didn't say H-Ds, so don't get your panties in a bunch. Straight pipes. > >> Also, he scares all the deer away when we go riding. > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > in some cagers wheel well. This is why we have legislation. Speed > kills loud pipes save lives. You forgot the smiley. http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/newsandupdates/NoiseAnnoys/ http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/positions/noise.asp are just a couple among thousands. Do a search for motorcycle noise and legislation then one on motorcycle speed and legislation. Then try to tell me, with a straight face, speed is why we have legislation. > >> Granted it doesn't help me > >> since I am ahead of him.:-) Some Gold wing rider gave my Dad a piece [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Hey I am a drummer. I like to make noise. If you don't like noise > move to Alaska. If you "pound your drums" at your house, knock yourself out. Pound on them while pushing them back and forth in front of my house and I'll be kickin' your a.s all the way to Alaska. ;-) > >Idiocy regarding noise runs rampant among the cruiser crowd. When I > >owned a HD, there was unbelievable pressure from "the gang" to "put some [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > My buddy has a Guzzi 1100 sport with straight pipes and mega phones. > It is as loud as my Dads bike. I don't mind it myself. Straight pipes suck on any motorized vehicle, whether it's a lawnmower or a sportbike. > As I said it scares the deer away. That is a good thing. Do you have any scientific data to back up that statement? SignatureKurt Kesler >> >> >>From: mfell >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Clarification for you: Straight pipes suck, Mike. I didn't say H-Ds, so >don't get your panties in a bunch. Straight pipes. In your opinion. My MX bike while not have a silencer either. So what. A little noise won't hurt anybody right? >> >> Also, he scares all the deer away when we go riding. >> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >are just a couple among thousands. Speed kills noise annoys. I would rather be annoyed then killed. How about you?:-) >Do a search for motorcycle noise and legislation then one on motorcycle >speed and legislation. Then try to tell me, with a straight face, speed [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> >If you "pound your drums" at your house, knock yourself out. What if you lived right next door to me?:-) The police have been called on me several times and you know what? I was within the legal noise limit.:-) >Pound on >them while pushing them back and forth in front of my house and I'll be >kickin' your a.s all the way to Alaska. >;-) What about loud slip on mufflers? You have a problem with those as well? >> >Idiocy regarding noise runs rampant among the cruiser crowd. When I >> >owned a HD, there was unbelievable pressure from "the gang" to "put some [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Do you have any scientific data to back up that statement? No other then the fact I don't see deer when riding with my Dad or my buddy on his Guzzi.:-) Regards Michael H. Fell > >> >> >>From: mfell > >> >No, they suck. They suck they suck they suck. Fscking obnoxious > >> >things. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >speed and legislation. Then try to tell me, with a straight face, speed > >is why we have legislation. > What if you lived right next door to me?:-) The police have been > called on me several times and you know what? I was within the legal > noise limit.:-) Here's another problem. There's a time and place for noise. I like loud music, race cars, race bikes, race boats, etc. But I DON'T like to hear that crap when I'm at home trying to relax or sleep. My friend who lived in a quiet residential, deed restricted community had a neighbor who road a Harley with a 'straight pipe'. Every time that guy would start his bike he would do what ALL Harley riders do. Rev. that friken motor. Why??? A. Because it's cool. B. Because it saves lives. C. It scares away deer. D. It won't run unless fuel is constantly being fed. or E. To piss off neighbors. I also have a girlfriend who lives in a deed restricted community that does not allow ANY motorcycles. Why??? My guess is because of those straight pipes. It sucks because I can't visit with my bike, even though it is quiet. My last bike was very loud, but I kept the rpms down until I was out away from any residential area. THAT'S what's great about inline 4s. They are basically quiet unless the RPMs are high. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I'd be one of those neighbors. SignatureKurt "Remember. I'm not always right, but... ...No. I am always right" > >> Yeah OK then you have the rice riding squids that go 110 down Green > >> bay rd by my house and the morons head gets ripped off and was lodged [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Speed kills noise annoys. I would rather be annoyed then killed. How > about you?:-) Except you are WRONG. Work on those comprehension skills a bit and then do the requested research. For every 10 examples of legislative initiatives brought about in the last 5 years as the result of speed that you can locate, I will return with 100 examples brought about by noise. And if you truly believe that "loud pipes save lives" dreck...well, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I will sell you. > >Do a search for motorcycle noise and legislation then one on motorcycle > >speed and legislation. Then try to tell me, with a straight face, speed [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > called on me several times and you know what? I was within the legal > noise limit.:-) What you are telling me is that you are a poor neighbor, if the people around you are continually calling the police about your behavior. Are you eagerly anticipating the upcoming Dukes of Hazzard movie, and maybe even looking forward to starring in your own Cops episode? Glad I don't live next to you. Of course, being an a.s usually has other costs associated with it as well, but maybe you haven't run into those. Yet. > >Pound on > >them while pushing them back and forth in front of my house and I'll be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > What about loud slip on mufflers? You have a problem with those as > well? Depends on "how loud". If by slip-on, you mean an open megaphone that bolts on, then yes, that is too loud. > >> As I said it scares the deer away. That is a good thing. > > > >Do you have any scientific data to back up that statement? > > No other then the fact I don't see deer when riding with my Dad or my > buddy on his Guzzi.:-) So, in other words, no. SignatureKurt Kesler > My Dad is 69 years old and has many friends. Has been riding since > 1952 give or take a year. On an HD straight pipes are cool. Also, he [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Regards > Michael H. Fell Damn dude. I find more and more typos every time I read one of your post. I just think you should edit your own stuff before editing others. Now, about those cool straight pipes that scares deer. If they were practical in performance (no. I'm not talking about the deer thing) then I can see. My last bike was a '00 ZRX1100. I had a after market pipe along with a stage III kit. I gained 35HP. This is what I'm talking about. With this louder pipe, I gained HP AND I scared the deer away, besides out performing ALL Harley Davidson. And if we were have a telephone conversation, I would hear EVERY word you are saying. Not that I would offend you dear old Dad ('cause I'm sure he remembers Pearl Harbor) I would take a Gold Wing any day over ANY Harley. I don't buy any bike for 'resale' value either, because I can afford to buy a new one every three to four years. I buy 'em to ride. Kurt > My Dads HD has over 70,000 miles on it. It runs great. Stock with > super loud straight pipes. Why don't you ride the passenger pillion and have him take you somewhere out of the county since you can't do it yourself Mike? >> My Dads HD has over 70,000 miles on it. It runs great. Stock with >> super loud straight pipes. > >Why don't you ride the passenger pillion and have him take you somewhere out >of the county since you can't do it yourself Mike? Troy if you did what I do for a living you wouldn't get off the couch. I am going full bore in construction ten hours a day 8 on Saturdays. I walk 10 or more miles a day on the jobsite while shooting grades. I still ride my bike but, I don't ride it enough. I play full court basketball as well. I have many hobbies and they are all very physical. When I get old and out of shape then I will ride more. Most likely when I am 80 I will try a track day. Maybe I will break a sweat?:-) If I had the time I would and could ride to Alaska. I have to work though and this is a busy time for me. No vacations for me. Regards Michael H. Fell >>> My Dads HD has over 70,000 miles on it. It runs great. Stock with >>> super loud straight pipes. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Troy if you did what I do for a living you wouldn't get off the couch. No...but I'd probably lose weight...be all fit and stuff.....but hell Mike. When I was digging ditches for a living at age 18 you know what I figured out? That I didn't want to be digging ditches for a living when I was 40. So...I went and did something about it. Now....I don't have to dig ditches for a living. Even better? I don't have to talk about " I know a guy" or "someone once told me" or "when I was at the bar last night this hardcore Hardley rider said.."...don't have to do that Mike. > I am going full bore in construction ten hours a day 8 on Saturdays. > I walk 10 or more miles a day on the jobsite while shooting grades. I > still ride my bike but, I don't ride it enough. 13K miles in what.....5 years? Not riding it enough is an understatement. >I play full court > basketball as well. I have many hobbies and they are all very > physical. When I get old and out of shape then I will ride more. What fun will it be then? Thats just like all those people who say "when I retire I'll go see this...or that" and then drop dead from overwork and stress at age 60. Lotta good it did them, waiting until they were dead, eh Mike? >Most > likely when I am 80 I will try a track day. Maybe I will break a > sweat?:-) If I had the time I would and could ride to Alaska. I have > to work though and this is a busy time for me. No vacations for me. Then get another job. I made more money at age 28 then I do now. The difference? I come home for lunch every day, nobody calls and wakes me up with a jobsite disaster at 4AM, I don't have to convince the guy running the bulldozer that he really is stupid and if I wanted to make alot less money I'd fire him and do it myself, life is much easier even if I don't make as much. I did it for the kids. Plain and simple. No more 5 bikes in the garage yuppies R us, no more 4 nice cages for 2 drivers, nope, all that went away and I got my life back instead. Another 5 years and I might even do as well as when I was 28. Not bad for a low-40-something in my book. Get another job Mike, enjoy life a little now before acid rain, meteors,mercury poisoning, your pissed off wife all end your dreams of retirement. > If I were to buy a Jap bike that would be the one although I don;t like water cooling. My MX bike is water > cooled. Just more things to break on it. > > Regards > Michael H. Fell I don't like starters and batteries. Just more things to break. I rather just kick start it. >Why do Harleys suck? Because the engineers who design them, 'blow'. Chad 2003 R1 >>Why do Harleys suck? > >Because the engineers who design them, 'blow'. > >Chad >2003 R1 Oh really brainiac? Those Porsche engineers not good enough for you? HD does not need to compete with the Japanese in the sportbike market. They make plenty of money in the cruiser market which they own. Money is the sole reason why HD doesn't really change. They don't need to as they sell plenty of bikes. Buell sales have increased as well especially in Europe. Regards Michael H. Fell >>>Why do Harleys suck? >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Oh really brainiac? Those Porsche engineers not good enough for you? No. But people building overweight, underpowered cages would fit right in with the Hardley philosophy of building overweight and underpowered motorcycles.... > HD does not need to compete with the Japanese in the sportbike market. Correct mike...it isn't DOES NOT NEED...its CAN'T. CAN'T Mike, they CAN'T compete with the japanese imports. > They make plenty of money in the cruiser market which they own. Money > is the sole reason why HD doesn't really change. They don't need to > as they sell plenty of bikes. Buell sales have increased as well > especially in Europe. So those French are not only stupid when it comes to war, but they fall for the Buell "sportfighter" claptrap? Boy...I thought they were morons before....now its been verified. >When I bought my SV1000, I sorta considered the Buell XB12R. I steered >away, mostly due to the resale value, and the reports of problems, all of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >them to be, or have they gotten better? And if they are that bad, why can't >good ole' American's make an acceptable product? I'd speculate it's an American, can-do attitude sort of thing. We're a proud, resourceful, some say violent people. "Big" has always been a buzzword, dating back surely to the frontier days and "Go West!" under the big skies of the open plains, mountains, etc. My favorite metaphor is "very large, friendly dog wagging his tail in a small room. When the tail wags, things are knocked over." We like our big, clunky trucks with V-8 engines (ditto SUVs). The biggest kid on the block sometimes wants the biggest, baddest bicycle. Never mind that statistically, several foreign trucks usually score better in terms of long-term quality and resale. Those foreign jobs aren't nearly as sexy in that big, American way, however. Search your own heart, see the truth. In your social circle, what's more interesting: a big Chevy dually or a Toyota Tacoma? Harley-Davidsons epitomize that whole blue-collar, can-do, Big American attitude in spades. They aren't a motorcycle; rather, an institution. Reading a Buell article in a back issue of Roadracing World just yesterday, I get the distinct impression that despite all the cutting-edge technology in the new Buells (fuel in frame, oil in swingarm, break-away steering head), Eric Buell really digs that cludgy H-D twin at the heart of the beast. In the end, it probably doesn't matter anyway: that's what he's got to work with. What, think they'll replace the motor with a Kawasaki Mean Streak big twin anytime soon? Seems to me Buell's taken ancient engine technology all new places, and for what it is, I'm impressed how far it's gotten. As a quality assurance professional, I'm 100% convinced quality control is a top-down endeavor. QA/QC exists in a strange never-never land of mild disdain for many managers. I never quite understood this: companies falling out of touch with their customer base, saving up-front manufacturing costs by cutting corners yet paying the price later in lost satisfaction. Robbing Peter to pay Paul, in other words; penny-wise, pound-foolish. Choose your metaphor. My best guess is H-D continues to live off their tremendous name and market share, see earlier comments about "big American" ideals. Until (and if) there comes a massive market revolt due to less-than-stellar quality, things will never change. Nor should they, as far as management's concerned. '----------------------------------------------------- ' Daniel Bannon ' NW WA State, U.S.A. ' 2003 ZX636B Hercusaki, 1999 CBR1100XX '----------------------------------------------------- > My best guess is H-D continues to live off their tremendous name and > market share, see earlier comments about "big American" ideals. Until > (and if) there comes a massive market revolt due to less-than-stellar > quality, things will never change. Nor should they, as far as > management's concerned. Good points. In other words they looked at their sales figured, discovered quality wasn't a factor so why change it. That kind of thinking is wh |
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