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Motorcycle Forum / General / Sportbikes / September 2004If you could replace the Buell XB9/12's motor
What would you replace it with? For me, I'd like to see a big single, maybe a bored out version of Yamaha's Raptor 660 engine, with the 720 kit. That would be a hoot! > What would you replace it with? > > For me, I'd like to see a big single, maybe a bored out version of Yamaha's > Raptor 660 engine, with the 720 kit. That would be a hoot! Naah, just a hopped up and lighter version of the Vrod motor would suffice. > > What would you replace it with? > > > > For me, I'd like to see a big single, maybe a bored out version of Yamaha's > > Raptor 660 engine, with the 720 kit. That would be a hoot! > > Naah, just a hopped up and lighter version of the Vrod motor would suffice. Not a bad choice Or a rotax v twin. that would be hot, but it doesnt have the HD look (which I like in the motor a lot, especially the sporty motor) Phil Scott >> > What would you replace it with? >> > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Phil Scott The problem is, the XB is too small for the bigger(physical dimensions)Vrod motor/tranny. I'm sure we'll see a Buell with that motor in it someday, just not the XB. But even that's iffy. Eric Buell really digs air cooled twins. > >> > What would you replace it with? > >> > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > in it someday, just not the XB. But even that's iffy. Eric Buell really > digs air cooled twins. So do I...and the HD look. Really, OHC is not needed on a long stroke motor, so the existing HD engine could be upgraded Nalin style with 4 valve heads and cams etc..and then the transmission primary arrangement shrunk to create a very light good looking, HD style motor. Id buy one of those at buell prices. Phil Scott > What would you replace it with? > > For me, I'd like to see a big single, maybe a bored out version of > Yamaha's Raptor 660 engine, with the 720 kit. That would be a hoot! If you made the Buell reliable, faster and upgraded the styling you'd have a Ducati Monster.  SignatureGreg Sumner Seattle WA '03 CBR 600RR > > What would you replace it with? > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > If you made the Buell reliable, faster and upgraded the styling you'd have a > Ducati Monster. All the buell needs to be reliable is an engine balancer that works, but I guess with the 45 degree V twin thats difficult. Phil Scott >If you made the Buell reliable, faster and upgraded the styling you'd have a >Ducati Monster. Yeah right! The Buell's motor sports hydraulic cams. It has a rubber belt drive. Potentially it is far more maintenance free than any Duc, which needs a $650 service every 6k miles just to keep from falling apart. I've heard stories though of the rubber belt giving up the ghost at 6k miles, which means Buell has bumped up against what toothed belts can handle with the latest torque monster XB12s. Other than that no complaints so far from the current generation. If you DO blow one up a new Harlie motor is only a catalog and a couple of hand tools away. Prolly the cheapest rebuild going. Price them Ducati parts lately? I like the Harlie motor in a Buell. Not at all the most elegant or efficient solution (though the 50+mpg ratings ARE more efficient than Jap/Euro offerings), but there comes a time in every motorcyclist's career that he realizes you can't ride a spec sheet. Once the novelty of having new motorcycles all the time wears off, of drooling over the latest/greatest and bragging about a tenth of a second here or a 1/4 horsepower there what are you left with? Nothing. Either you sell the bikes and buy a minivan or realize that motorcycling is about the ride, not the bike. I'm starting to appreciate the oddball sportbikes more. Supermotos too. And <gasp> custom cruisers. sh.t that doesn't make any sense is appealing. Because if you really sit and think about it, riding a motorcycle doesn't make any sense in the first place. >> If you made the Buell reliable, faster and upgraded the styling >> you'd have a Ducati Monster. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Potentially it is far more maintenance free than any Duc, which needs > a $650 service every 6k miles just to keep from falling apart. I said reliable, not less maintenance. But if you take the air-cooled Monster, the only thing you need to ever fiddle with is the valves which can be adjusted safely every 10k miles. > I'm starting to appreciate the oddball sportbikes more. Supermotos > too. And <gasp> custom cruisers. sh.t that doesn't make any sense is > appealing. Because if you really sit and think about it, riding a > motorcycle doesn't make any sense in the first place. Relax I'm with ya. I like the Buell, ancient engine and all. I love to have onea these though: http://ymedc.introweb.nl/en/archive/enduro/xt660_2004.shtml >I said reliable, not less maintenance. Is there a difference? The rider is still out of the equation while the bike is sidelined. At least with unreliable it happens at further intervals than Duc maintenance and possibly even not at all. >Relax I'm with ya. I like the Buell, ancient engine and all. I love to >have onea these though: >http://ymedc.introweb.nl/en/archive/enduro/xt660_2004.shtml My cousin has one in Greece as a playmate for his R1. Rode it, wanted one, cursed the Gods and EPA that prevents us from getting it here. Pretty damn popular bike there. > >> If you made the Buell reliable, faster and upgraded the styling > >> you'd have a Ducati Monster. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > have onea these though: > http://ymedc.introweb.nl/en/archive/enduro/xt660_2004.shtml My god! the guy is crossed up with only the throttle hand on the bars, the other signalling thumbs up as he smiles for the camera. Thats a clue about how well these light motarded singles handle. Phil Scott [snip] > > I'm starting to appreciate the oddball sportbikes more. Supermotos > > too. And <gasp> custom cruisers. sh.t that doesn't make any sense is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > have onea these though: > http://ymedc.introweb.nl/en/archive/enduro/xt660_2004.shtml How about one of these? http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/DRZ400SMK5/Default.aspx Available early next year. It'll be interesting to see how they sell. -- Michael > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > -- Michael That is way too much money, but damn I want one anyway. SignatureGreg Sumner Seattle WA '03 CBR 600RR > > [snip] > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >> Relax I'm with ya. I like the Buell, ancient engine and all. I love to > >> have onea these though: http://ymedc.introweb.nl/en/archive/enduro/xt660_2004.shtml > > How about one of these? http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/DRZ400SMK5/Default.aspx > > Available early next year. It'll be interesting to see how they sell. > > > > -- Michael > > That is way too much money, but damn I want one anyway. You will be able to get them for 5k new probably..but at 298 lbs suzuki is missing the boat...especially with the yamaha yz450 in the wings that they can position in that market... 80 lbs lighter.. that a 300% or more advantage in handling.... 80 lbs is huge. Honda's steel framed 450 will also problably be used to enter that market.. its 215 lbs..and about the same HP. We should be hearing from them shortly as well. The existing 650 is too heavy. The honda and yammi set ups translate to about 10 more HP equivalent in acceleration (due to the 80 lbs wt loss).... adding in the extra HP the Honda and yamaha 500 will provide .....thats 18 more effective hp than the suzuki 400... the honda and yammi will be the hot deal. I cant believe they will not enter this market. Suzuki will counter with thier MX bike motarded. the race will be on. Us mc riders will go nutz. Bikes at half the cost and 5x the fun. as bikes get lighter in relation to the rider they become almost uncrashable. Ive had that experience many times.. One time with a 125cc bultaco... an amazing ride. Just 20 lbs lighter than the 200cc bike (same bottom end) but handled twice as well and the 200 was one hell of a bike. You have seen motocross races with the guy hitting a berm with the bike horizontal... you can come 90% that close on the street with an ultra light motard. You can drag the bar ends easily. the start to loose it and stab a foot down and kick the bike back up.... a very safe ride when on the edge even. (bultaco is made in Spain, we used to call them blow-taco's because they blew the engines a lot...but nothing in the world came close to them for handling.. that held true until they came out with the 360.) Guys on this NG will be buying the new motards...you will hear nothing but total rave reviews.... I think the injury rate will fall too. You will still need a haul a.s highway bike though...those will still sell well. Phil Scott > > [snip] > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > That is way too much money, but damn I want one anyway. Yeah, that's what I thought as well. $6100 isn't totally unrealistic, but I think I'd rather have an SV650 for the same cash. I've never ridden a super motard though. Who knows, perhaps all it would take is a demo ride to hook me. <shrug> -- Michael > > > [snip] > > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > >> Relax I'm with ya. I like the Buell, ancient engine and all. I love to > > >> have onea these though: http://ymedc.introweb.nl/en/archive/enduro/xt660_2004.shtml > > > How about one of these? http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/DRZ400SMK5/Default.aspx > > > Available early next year. It'll be interesting to see how they sell. > > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Yeah, that's what I thought as well. $6100 isn't totally unrealistic, > but I think I'd rather have an SV650 for the same cash. if you ever rode a 250 lb bike with 50 hp and fat rubber you would understand...the SV feels like a tank compared to the flat tracker on the street. an entire world of difference. Many on this NG will be totally amazed at what they discover riding the new motards. The suzuki is a bit heavy though..it would still be impressive... yamaha and honda will arrive no doubt shortly with their 220 lb versions..at 50 hp. > I've never ridden a super motard though. Who knows, perhaps all > it would take is a demo ride to hook me. <shrug> correct...in spades. You will go nutz on one. Phil Scott > -- Michael > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Relax I'm with ya. I like the Buell, ancient engine and all. I love to > > have onea these though: http://ymedc.introweb.nl/en/archive/enduro/xt660_2004.shtml > How about one of these? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -- Michael These will sell like hot cakes. Anyone who rides one is hooked... the light weight and fat rubber makes them almost uncrashable compared to heavier bikes. 298 lbs dry is heavy though.. not a disaster but others will follow in the 220 lbs range. Already we see an 660 in the EU. Yamaha will follow suit with a 500 on the YZ frame within months I believe... thats 48 hp... it will eat anything else in the world alive on a back road where speeds are under 100 mph and with a lot of tight turns. Ive had bikes like that low enough to drag the sleeve cuffs on my leather jacket... comfortably... no way could i come even faintly that close on my liter bike. This suzuk 400 is probably good for 38 hp or so...in a 300 lb bike that will still take almost any other bike on the back roads. The YZ though will have more HP and be 80 lbs lighter...that will make it vastly superior... A man will need two bikes from here on... a motard (his primary ride) and a haul a.s sport bike for generating sheer adrenalin rushes on the super slab and wide open type roads.. The mid range bikes, like my SV650 will fade imho. A 220 lb 50 hp motard in city traffic will be a hoot too. And the price is right at 6k retail...you will be able to get them for 5k easily...and 4k used. All of this will not do the japanese mfgrs bottom line any good at first.. but may draw a lot more poeple to biking in the end. Phil Scott [snip] > These will sell like hot cakes. Anyone who rides one is Hard to say. That depends on how many people would rather spend $6K on a 40hp motard versus $6k for a 90hp 600 standard versus $6K for a used 600 supersport. :-) There are a fair number of choices for sporty rides nowadays. [snip] > The mid range bikes, like my SV650 will fade imho. Doubtful. The mid range standards offer great performance for the buck and more all round utility than a motard. > A 220 lb 50 hp motard in city traffic will be a hoot too. Yup. I imagine I'd find it easier to lanesplit, jump curbs, and cut across lawns on a motard than on my streetbikes! -- Michael > "Phil Scott" <philscott888@sf.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:<VnL6d.2928$JG2.1766@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>... > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > spend $6K on a 40hp motard versus $6k for a 90hp 600 standard > versus $6K for a used 600 supersport. :-) You are correct...the initial calculation will be as you say.... but after a few guys start reporting on how incredibly diffferent a light motard handles... the move will be real fast to the motard market.... you will find out real fast your first trip though the mountians on one or even a fast rip around the block...those things corner like you cant believe. Also that 6k motard price is retail..the deals cut will be in the 5.2k range... the suzuki will drop to 4.5 k imho because its heavy... the Yami and Honda versions being world class light and expensive frames with titanium fittings will stay at 6k retail imho.... and will sell well. but yes.... they will not hold a candle to i4 600cc crotch rocket...thats a different market ..most riders will want one of each... or more like a liter bike and a 500 single ultra light motard... the motard will get 90% of the use...but the liter bike will be beyond compare on the super slab... > There are a fair number of choices for sporty rides nowadays. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Yup. I imagine I'd find it easier to lanesplit, jump curbs, > and cut across lawns on a motard than on my streetbikes! Indeed...and the fun factor is way up on a motard as well. But you will still want your regular road bike as you say. Phil Scott > -- Michael >How about one of these? > >http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/DRZ400SMK5/Default.aspx > >Available early next year. It'll be interesting to see how they sell. Too much money, too little balls. I've ridden the 400 and it's not enough oomph for the street. Even the aircooled 650 spanks it in the torque dept. let alone a watercooled 660. > >How about one of these? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > enough oomph for the street. Even the aircooled 650 spanks it in the > torque dept. let alone a watercooled 660. I agree.. the suzuki is heavy too. However in the good old dayz..when I put my Ensenada grand prix bike back on the street... an air cooled two valve yami 500 thumper, probably good for 30 hp max..and 350 lbs or so...it was still faster than my liter bike in the mountains by a wide margin and a lot more fun (19" rims and fat rubber) todays motards beat it by light years.... I think these guys on this NG will go absolutely nutz with the motards as they come out next year...especially if yamaha and honda motard thier 450 mx bikes...which I think they will. Phil Scott > What would you replace it with? > > For me, I'd like to see a big single, maybe a bored out version of Yamaha's > Raptor 660 engine, with the 720 kit. That would be a hoot! Not a bad choice... part of the experience though is the look of the motor and HD has that look...so a big single with the HD motor look but with ponies. And the whole thing ultra light. Phil Scott Yeah, I wouldn't know for sure, but I bet the Raptor engine has got to be 25-40 pounds lighter, and still puts out good power. Alba racing has Raptor engines putting out 82hp at the rear tire. So take off 10%, and you still have a mean motor. And if the XB720R was 40 pounds lighter than it's stock sibling, that would be a hoot to ride! >> What would you replace it with? >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Phil Scott > Yeah, I wouldn't know for sure, but I bet the Raptor engine has got to be > 25-40 pounds lighter, and still puts out good power. Alba racing has Raptor > engines putting out 82hp at the rear tire. So take off 10%, and you still > have a mean motor. And if the XB720R was 40 pounds lighter than it's stock > sibling, that would be a hoot to ride! tell me about the raptor motor, I dont know what it is Phil Scott > >> What would you replace it with? > >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > > Phil Scott It's the Yammie motor referenced in the post earlier, in the same thread. It's found in the Raptor 660R ATV. Lotsa torque. Great motor. >> Yeah, I wouldn't know for sure, but I bet the Raptor engine > has got to be [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> > >> > Phil Scott > It's the Yammie motor referenced in the post earlier, in the same thread. > > It's found in the Raptor 660R ATV. Lotsa torque. Great motor. You can make yer own bike and register it you know... just use some other frame, stuff the motor in it, call it a one of a kind home built..its registerable under the home built and less than 50 made exceptions. it would be a hell of a bike. My 600 puts out about 60 hp though ... 250 lbs... you can get a special head for that hummer that will produce 85 very reliable hp.. but the fuel mileage is well under 15 or 20 mpg. Phil Scott > >> Yeah, I wouldn't know for sure, but I bet the Raptor engine > > has got to be [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >> > > >> > Phil Scott > What would you replace it with? > > For me, I'd like to see a big single, maybe a bored out version of Yamaha's > Raptor 660 engine, with the 720 kit. That would be a hoot! > > a guy called phill gregory in the uk built an engine that used two RS jawa speedway top ends on his own crank and cases, set in a v of course , i only saw him use it in a couple of local twisty sprint meetings, but i can tell you that thing was drunk on methanol and steroids !!!!! good job he was a hell of a rider. it was 1100 cc and it must have been about 19 years ago > What would you replace it with? > > For me, I'd like to see a big single, maybe a bored out version of > Yamaha's Raptor 660 engine, with the 720 kit. That would be a hoot! Dump in an EPA certified, reliable as the usual dirt, TL1000S-R or V-Strom DL1000 or SV1000 engine. Childs play. And it hasn't been done why? Because someone is incompetent...or someone is beholding to someone else who is incompetent.... >From: "Simpledog" >What would you replace it with? > >For me, I'd like to see a big single, maybe a bored out version of Yamaha's >Raptor 660 engine, with the 720 kit. That would be a hoot! What's the point? Now if I could replace the S3T motor I'd put a triple in it. |
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