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Motorcycle Forum / General / Sportbikes / April 2005To the blithering Hardley riders....
who jammed up a perfectly nice canyon ride to the point where you were backing up even the lame a.s cagers.... Its polite to move over when going 5 under the limit...not everyone is held back by a 2 degree lean angle limit.... While cool to gas it into every corner to listen to the backfires when you then slam the throttle closed and in a near panic stab at the brakes...it is distracting to those of us who aren't that incompetent. When Honda Civics on a downhill run are piling up behind you, waiting for you to gain competence or crash through lack of it, you should take this as a clue.... Couldn't you have pulled over and POLISHED something so those of us with an interest in running through some corners could have? Oh yeah...and the new oil helps it shift better again...just like I was hoping. But the entire canyon ride was a waste because of these incompetents. When cruiser riders want to site-see there way through a perfectly wonderful twisty road they might as well stop all traffic at both ends of the road, it would make more sense than allowing these slowly moving road blocks to act like they know how to ride....if there had been bicycles around THEY would have been passing everyone... Why post it here? We all know that. Try posting in a Harley newsgroup. Feedback may be...ummm...interesitng. B~ > Why post it here? We all know that. > > Try posting in a Harley newsgroup. Feedback may be...ummm...interesitng. I was riding a sportbike when I got hung up behind one of the larger groups of blithering idiots I've been caught behind lately. Several years ago, I got caught behind another group, and this group did better than that group, imminent crashing wise anyway, no one ran off the road, while the entire group might have been newbies they didn't have any obvious signs other than going so damn slow. And, who gives a rats a.s what the Hardley riders think, THEY were the ones causing the problem in this particular canyon, on this particular afternoon. >>Why post it here? We all know that. >> >>Try posting in a Harley newsgroup. Feedback may be...ummm...interesitng. > > I was riding a sportbike when I got hung up behind one of the larger groups > of blithering idiots I've been caught behind lately. It's called a throttle. Twist it back gradually and one by one you'll watch the Harleys disappear in your wake. >>>Why post it here? We all know that. >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It's called a throttle. Twist it back gradually and one by one you'll > watch the Harleys disappear in your wake. Well sure...if I had a big urge to be a raging prick I would have picked them off individually on every double yellow, 50' long straight available...you gotta understand saddle, this was a nice canyon, not one of those ohio type roads where there is a corner at the end of some long straight, I would have had to pass around corners, on the other side of the double yellow....and I could have...but DAMN why should I? The local cagers after a corner or two pull out for bikes as well as other cages, these guys were just plain being rude. > who jammed up a perfectly nice canyon ride to the point > where you were backing up even the lame a.s cagers.... The cruiser and HD riders may be frustrating, but who is the one riding dangerously, anyway? Well, Troy, you know that there's a difference in attitude between sportriders and cruiser riders. The sportriders will tell you that they like the feeling of speed and control, and enjoy the adrenaline rush, and then they enjoy bench racing and talking to their buds for half an hour about how they went really, really, really capital-F FAST! for five minutes... Talk to a Harley rider or a cruiser rider and they'll tell you that they ride to relax, and you can also see that a cruiser ride is a sort of social event/parade affair where it's about showing off your ride and checking out everybody else's ride and checking out the women in the tight jeans and leather chaps, and it's just a whole different Sunday Ride to them... They're not out there practicing Motorcycle Safety Foundation "drills" or working on their "throttle control", they're just enjoying having their face in the sun and wind and wonder why those crazy fools on their crotch rockets are in such a hurry to die, anyway... When I go out on a Seymour Rhodes tour over a few mountain ranges to the coast and then back through beautiful valleys heading home on my sportbike, I'm usually expecting to do at least 300 miles and I'm planning to survive my day trip so I can keep on daytrippin'... And I see experienced Harley riders that are riding as fast as I want to go, seeing as how I know where the CHP is likely to be laying in wait, so I don't want to be outstanding by passing all the HD riders and cruisers five or ten at a time. Usually if it's a pack of men on HD's or cruisers, they will be going fast enough... But, when they have women solo riders along, they will tend to ride slower so as not to scare the women and let them gain experience so they can ride a little bit faster later... I remember coming up on a pack like that, males and females riding almost parade style, doing 50 in a 55 on an ag road where the drivers of pickup trucks are likely to be driving 75 or 80 mph. And, as I passed part of the pack, I expected to duck into their ranks and let an oncoming car go by. But, just as I thought I was going to duck in, one of the girls on an HD moves over to block me! I don't think it was an intentional act on her part, it was probaly an uncoordinated raction to having an a.shole on a crotch rocket come up alongside her at 85 mph... I had to white knuckle the double yellow and the oncoming car had to ride the shoulder. I didn't get mad either, I figured it was mostly my fault for wanting to pass the whole HD parade at one time and not allowing a mile of clear space to do it... Usually when I come up behind cruisers and HD's while feeling my Cheerio's, I will slow down and follow them for a mile or so, and they will usally make room. About the time I pass, I need to remember to check six for the a.shole on an R1 that's playing Ricky Racer and going twice the speed limit with visions of Laguna Seca dancing in his head... The cruiser and HD riders may be frustrating, but who is the one riding dangerously, anyway? >> who jammed up a perfectly nice canyon ride to the point >> where you were backing up even the lame a.s cagers.... > > The cruiser and HD riders may be frustrating, but who is the one riding > dangerously, anyway? Unfortunately, today, no one was riding dangerously. Not them, not me, they were just going SLOW...REAL slow. > Well, Troy, you know that there's a difference in attitude between > sportriders and cruiser riders. The sportriders will tell you that they > like the feeling of speed and control, and enjoy the adrenaline rush, > and then they enjoy bench racing and talking to their buds for half an > hour about how they went really, really, really capital-F FAST! for > five minutes... I didn't want to go FAST for 5 minutes, I just wanted a reasonable speed down the canyon today, and that could ahve been achieved behind a local in his cage....some of them whip through the corners quite nicely. > The cruiser and HD riders may be frustrating, but who is the one riding > dangerously, anyway? Today, no one was being dangerous. But I would have liked to have the CHOICE to do so. > Unfortunately, today, no one was riding dangerously. Not them, > not me, they were just going SLOW...REAL slow. Huh? How would it be "fortunate" for the everybody on the road if somebody *was* riding dangerously? > I didn't want to go FAST for 5 minutes, I just wanted a > reasonable speed down the canyon today, and that could ahve > been achieved behind a local in his cage....some of them > whip through the corners quite nicely. Evidently, a bunch of HD riders thought what they were doing was reasonable and you didn't, but they were ahead of you, and you reasoned that it would be unsafe to pass them. So everybody turned out to be reasonable people and you all got home safely and nobody called the cops to say there's a rider down in the canyon and the cops were happy that they didn't have to send the meat wagon out to pick any reasonably dead body up... > Today, no one was being dangerous. But I would have liked to > have the CHOICE to do so. Couldn't you just fantasize about doing something dangerous on your Sunday ride? Hold back on the real dangerous stuff until you get to a track day? I've been doing Monday rides and Friday rides for years now, to avoid all the heavy Sunday driver traffic, Harley parades and Ricky Racer insanity. I also miss the special enforcement activities that occur around the MC watering holes... It works out well in some respects, I have the roads pretty much to myself, but I don't see many riders out during the week,unless they are commuting... In the city, I timed my ride outbound and back home to avoid the heavy commuter traffic, like 250K cagers parked on the Vebtura freeway between 3 PM and 6 PM... Out here in the country, there's a lot less of that kind of traffic, but there's more heavy trucks and agricultural equipment and people driving out of muddy fields onto the pavement and leaving big clods of dirt. So I still take it easy, pretty much sticking to the speed limits.... > Evidently, a bunch of HD riders thought what they were doing was > reasonable and you didn't, but they were ahead of you, and you reasoned No, I remember quite a few rides into the mountains by Denver being ruined by HD riders because they were going well under the speed limit. These were your weekend warrior yuppies, or mid life crisis fools who bought a HD because they don't have anything better to do. It is one thing to stick with the speed limit, or just a hair above that. I don't expect anyone to exceed the speed limit so I can have some fun, although I do appreciate it when cages make it easy for me to get by. But these fools would quite often be cruising at 20 or 25 mph in a 35 to 40 mph zone - and they were in no danger of running out of ground clearance. If they are that incompetent, they should stay out of the mountains. And even worse, they would ride in these huge packs that were damn near impossible to get around. - Kurt > No, I remember quite a few rides into the mountains by > Denver being ruined by HD riders because they were going > well under the speed limit. I remember being scared by packs of squidly Ricky Racers on the popular Angeles Crest Highway. While I happen to like the *style* of sportbikes, I don't necessarily believe that I have to see how fast I can take every corner, and I can respect the rights of the riders ahead of me, who are taking their turn at the road we all must share peacefully... I see now reason to troll Harley riders, either. While I've never owned a Harley, I have ridden Sportsters and might even buy a Harley someday to see what that is all about first hand. I was thinking about building a grungey-looking Big Twin so nobody would accuse me of being a RUB... I don't see much wrong with a group of riders on any kind of motorcycle heading up into the mountains at a sedate pace to enjoy the scenery and some socializing. It's far less dangerous than having a group of riders engaging in a road race on public roads where there's a mountain on one side and a cliff on the other... The remark about slow HD riders reminds me of an Angeles Crest Highway sportrider who wrote an angry letter about being forced to slow down and follow a line of movie studio trucks and cars being escorted up the ACH by two CHP units... In his mind, the mountain road was a place to play, the pavement and the corners were why he was there, he could care less about the mountain scenery and the ski resorts that the ACH had been built to access... The sportrider really really really wanted to play on the ACH, but the officer in the lead unit didn't pull over into one of the turnouts and signal the trucks to pull over for the rider who was getting more and more incensed. The rider was flashing his lights and beeping his horn, expecting everybody to get out of his way so he could have "fun" on the road, according to his perceptions of what the highway was for... Didn't everybody just "know" that the ACH was "racer road?" What was *wrong* with those slowpokes, anyway... So the sportrider followed the caravan of trucks and the two CHP units to their destination, the place where they were going to set up a movie shoot, and the sportrider angrily approached the lead CHP unit and demanded that the officer *cite himself* for violation of the CVC section that said slow traffic must use the turn outs when more than 5 vehicles are being held up... Of course, the officer didn't write himself up, but the upset sportbike rider fired off an angry letter to the local Free2Wheel motorcycle newspaper where it was answered by a motorcycle officer who explained that the officers were escorting the caravan for their safety and for the safety of other motorists using the ACH... Over the years, many mountain roads have gained popularity in the motorcycling press because of their technically challenging corners, smooth pavement, traffic and general isolation, and these roads have become known as "racer road" to the sportbike community... When accident statistics begin to increase, so does law enforcement, and then even law-abiding motorcyclists like myself become targets for the special enforcement activities... I started driving on the ACH in 1961. I rode a motorcycle on the ACH in 1967 for the first time. The road was almost deserted for years. I could ride for hours and see very few people. The few who did go up into the mountains were interested in the mountain scenery, Mt. Wilson observatory, and used the road to go to the ski resorts in winter. They weren't interested in seeing how fast they could go, but, if they were using the road to actually go to another town, they were headed for the little mountain community of Wrightwood, or they were headed for the desert towns of Palmdale and Lancaster... Then, about 1976, the editors of Cycle magazine decided that their old "racer road", Mulholland Highway, which had been convenient for them to test their sportbikes and roadracers on, was getting too much law enforcement "heat". So they started talking about the ACH, describing it as a "perfect" road, one that was even manicured by CalTrans, whose trucks would scoop all the rocks off the road every day... But, for a long time the ACH had been known as a place to ride fast without much risk of a citation. It was a fairly well kept secret amongst magazine writers and their followers and the motorcycle clubs which didn't have many members... But, a secret road can't be kept secret when the magazines start blabbing about it and our "sport without a venue" grew rapidly until there were hoardes of riders on the ACH trying to go fast, weaving in and out of lines of cruiser and touring riders, and doing risky double yellow line passes on cars and campers filled with people going to the mountains to enjoy the views and perhaps go camping... Those people couldn't understand why the sportriders were riding so fast and dangerously. The ambulance drivers and air rescue teams in helicopters wondered what would get into the heads of crazed sportriders who had to be transported out of the mountains, not once, but several times... And soon the ACH had all sorts of Ricky Racers squidding around and the special enforcement activiities began. I remember a photograph in the Los Angeles Times that showed a CHP officer standing in the middle of the highway with his left hand up, motioning some squids on RD-350's to stop, while in his right hand he was holding his service revolver. That was back about 1981... I began avoiding the ACH on weekends because I didn't want the hassle from the CHP's. I would ride there during the week and I would spot flower decorated crosses along the road where riders had died in senseless accidents and I would see the signs of gasoline spills and scrapes on the asphalt where riders would slide over the side and I would see the marks where motorcycles had knocked the bark off of pine trees, and I would stop and check out the holes where some unrescued sport rider might be lying helplessly, having been unnoticed for a few days... I remember stopping to watch a helicopter rescue team hauling a rider off the the hospital and tow trucks were pulling two motorcycles out of the canyon below Squid's Leap, a well known scene of many motorcycle crashes. The two riders had been Ricky Racing and the second one followed the first right over the cliff at the decreasing radius off-camber turn... Somebody pointed out a third motorcycle down in the canyon. One of the responding officers said that motorcycle went over the cliff the previous day... And, of course there are families who want to take their kids and their kids' friends and their aunts and uncles and nieces and nephews and the whole extended family to the mountains and they can't get all those people into one car, so they caravan to the mountains in a Chevy Chase-like disorganized group situation. But they usually don't leave the house before about 11:00AM, they can get everybody moving earlier, and they will be returning home with at least a few beers in them around sunset, so obviously the time to enjoy a popular mountain area is before 11:00 AM... The adaptation of many sportriders for years has been to get up early and do the "crack of dawn" Sunday ride, get 'er done by 10 AM, get home and either take the old ball-and-chain to the mall for some shopping to quiet her down, or settle into the sofa with beer and pretzels and watch sports on the TV... > These were your weekend warrior yuppies, or mid life crisis > fools who bought a HD because they don't have anything better > to do. The philosophy towards differences in speed preferences has been, "If you want to go faster than me, you must be CRAZY. If you want to go slower than me, you must be STUPID." In a person's life, he will often be considered "crazy" to some, and "stupid" to others. Can't we all just be REASONABLE instead, at least loosely following the rules legislated by our elected officials? > It is one thing to stick with the speed limit, or just a > hair above that. I don't expect anyone to exceed the speed > limit so I can have some fun, although I do appreciate it > when cages make it easy for me to get by. Ask a law enforcement officer about the concept of "having fun" on a public highway, and he will probably tell you that you're not supposed to be having "fun", you're supposed to ride soberly, with all due concern for your safety and the safety of the other motorists you share the road with... > But these fools would quite often be cruising at 20 or 25 mph > in a 35 to 40 mph zone -and they were in no danger of running > out of ground clearance. If they are that incompetent, > they should stay out of the mountains. And even worse, they > would ride in these huge packs that were damn near impossible > to get around. Well, your local DMV has decided that those HD riders *are* competent enough to operate a motor vehicle, on public streets and in the mountains. There aren't any special "mountain road competency" tests, the license allows the rider to ride a motorcycle and it may be an endorsement on a license that lets him drive a passenger car or a pickup truck or a van... And, while it may be illegal for the HD riders to travel in caravans, preventing other behicles from passing, the rider on the sportbike passing the entire group at high speed is the most likely person to be awarded the "Ricky Racer of the Hour" citation which requires him to present himself before the court and explain why he was in such a hurry an a beautiful Sunday afternoon... >> No, I remember quite a few rides into the mountains by >> Denver being ruined by HD riders because they were going [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >of me, who are taking their turn at the road we all must share >peacefully... [...] bigtime snip of long ranting drivel. Why don't you go blow it out your a.s KJ. You bitch about phil being pedantic but you're just as bad. Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ-deer strike recovery-(completed) 01 Sprint ST "RED" 45K miles 03 GSXR 1000 "SILVER" 7K RIP (deer slain) > Why don't you go blow it out your a.s KJ. You bitch about > phil being pedantic but you're just as bad. Look up the definition of "pedant" in your dictionary, Bobbie. Then you won't hang the tag on anybody wrongfully... I have never accused Filbert Scaramuccio of being a "pedant", but I have certainly tried to get him out of his tin closet into the clear light of day by poking fun at him... We can all learn something from Filbert. But not in a teacher/student relationship. We can learn from his errors that there are options we shouldn't choose... But why are you bringing Filbert into this thread? Don't you know what he will start raving about? I don't necessarily believe that I have to see how fast I > can take every corner, and I can respect the rights of the riders ahead > of me, who are taking their turn at the road we all must share > peacefully... I say if you're not going quicker than the last time you took that corner then you're wasting gas tires and time... Larry L 94 RC45 #2 Have a wheelie NICE day... Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life... If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust... V4'S are music to the seat of my pants... 1952 De Havilland Chipmunk... Yank and bank your brains loose... http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/ http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/ http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2 > I say if you're not going quicker than the last time you > took that corner then you're wasting gas tires and time... I would rather go back to the good old days of "gas, grass, or a.s---nobody rides for free!" I've found that there are very few women interested in riding on the back of a sportbike with a Ricky Racer who has an ego problem... >> I say if you're not going quicker than the last time you >> took that corner then you're wasting gas tires and time... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >interested in riding on the back of a sportbike with a Ricky Racer >who has an ego problem... Yeah right, like ole' krusty's had anyone but his grand daughter on the back of his bike and prolly not even that. Pictures please; otherwise you're just as big a lier as you CLAIM of Phil Scott. Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ-deer strike recovery-(completed) 01 Sprint ST "RED" 45K miles 03 GSXR 1000 "SILVER" 7K RIP (deer slain) > Yeah right, like ole' krusty's had anyone but his grand daughter on > the back of his bike and prolly not even that. Pictures please; > otherwise you're just as big a lier as you CLAIM of Phil Scott. You're not making an ounce of sense, Bobbie. Are you trying to suggest that I could prove that women aren't much interested in riding on the back of a sportbike if I posted a picture of me riding solo? Most illogical, Mr. Nixon... >> I say if you're not going quicker than the last time you >> took that corner then you're wasting gas tires and time... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >interested in riding on the back of a sportbike with a Ricky Racer >who has an ego problem... I can vouch for that.... I've taken quite a few girls on a couple of rides, and they love it. Quite in contrary usally to past experiences that had them fearing for their lives. Unfortunately, so far I've not gotten anything but compliments out of them lol =) Then again, I also do ride a lot differently with a passenger. If I'm by myself, I'm willing to take certain chances. If I'm with a passenger, only chance I'm taking is none. -- Stephan 2001 Yamaha YZF-R6 >>> I say if you're not going quicker than the last time you >>> took that corner then you're wasting gas tires and time... [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >by myself, I'm willing to take certain chances. If I'm with a >passenger, only chance I'm taking is none. We're talking about a fat old ugly fart in his 60's Stephen. Not that I'm in any better situation. However, my bike is more conducive to a pillion rider than Krusty's. Then you won't see me talking trash about female pillions unless I've got supporting photos. That's something Krusty's either incapable of doing, either technically, or he's just plain lying -:) Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ-deer strike recovery-(completed) 01 Sprint ST "RED" 45K miles 03 GSXR 1000 "SILVER" 7K RIP (deer slain) > We're talking about a fat old ugly fart in his 60's Stephen. > Not that I'm in any better situation. However, my bike is > more conducive to a pillion rider than Krusty's. Then you > won't see me talking trash about female pillions unless I've > got supporting photos. I think you're proving my point about women in general being unwilling to get onto the back of a sportbike, Bobbie. If you don't have any pictures and I don't have any pictures, are there any old farts out there who do have pictures of women that they aren't married to on the backs of their sportbikes? I mean, pictures that aren't a decade old or more? Don't bother posting pictures of you and strippers, Filbert. You'll probably Photoshop them... The only crowd that seems to get women on the back of their sportbikes around here are the young stunters and the Latinos from the barrios... Say, Bobbie, do you really think I'm unattractive because I'm old and fat and stupid and smell bad? I type a really *mean* post on Usenet. Isn't that sexy? Say, where did all the women that used to post to AMS go? Weren't there one or two of them? Did my B.O. and bad manners drive them off? Or did Filbert Scarramuccio scare them away with his "world's oldest flat tracker" and "criminal cult" posts make them go looking for greener pastures? Enquiring minds want to know... >>We're talking about a fat old ugly fart in his 60's Stephen. >>Not that I'm in any better situation. However, my bike is [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Say, where did all the women that used to post to AMS go? Weren't there > one or two of them? Did my B.O. and bad manners drive them off? Women are better seen than heard. >>I say if you're not going quicker than the last time you >>took that corner then you're wasting gas tires and time... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > interested in riding on the back of a sportbike with a Ricky Racer > who has an ego problem... My wife. I've found that there are very few women > interested in riding on the back of a sportbike with a Ricky Racer > who has an ego problem... I have no trouble finding them... in fact I just turned down 22 year old Tabitha... my next door neighbors Scandinavian house guess... she beg for me to take her for a ride on Mr.RC45... even though it's a solo seat that won't stop me... you see for Mary's 32 anniversary gift I did strip off the tail cowl and build a passenger seat... and once I give a ride to a passenger they trust me because I ride for them and not for me... and the smoother you are... the more confidence they have in your riding ability... Someday Bear I'll take you for a ride on your own bike... and you can count the shifts because I'll perform a couple of gear changes so smoothly you'll miss feeling them... http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/Pics11-24-03/bigimages/RC45Biposto02.JPG Larry L 94 RC45 #2 Have a wheelie NICE day... Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life... If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust... V4'S are music to the seat of my pants... 1952 De Havilland Chipmunk... Yank and bank your brains loose... http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/ http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/ http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2 > I've found that there are very few women >> interested in riding on the back of a sportbike with a Ricky Racer [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > me to take her for a ride on Mr.RC45... even though it's a solo seat that > won't stop me... Dammit Larry!! Some friend YOU are turning out to be. Hey, did you get my email about this weekend? I don't want any excuses. We haven't been on a ride together since we rode with Tai a few summers ago. It should be a good group going. Jason W > Dammit Larry!! Some friend YOU are turning out to be. Hey I mentioned you... but she wasn't interested... just let me borrow your bike so I may take her a ride so she'll stop bugging me??? > Hey, did you get my email about this weekend? I don't want any excuses. We > haven't been on a ride together since we rode with Tai a few summers ago. It > should be a good group going. No can do this weekend... Mary gots plans... Larry L 94 RC45 #2 Have a wheelie NICE day... Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life... If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust... V4'S are music to the seat of my pants... 1952 De Havilland Chipmunk... Yank and bank your brains loose... http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/ http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/ http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2 >> Dammit Larry!! Some friend YOU are turning out to be. > > Hey I mentioned you... but she wasn't interested... just let me borrow > your bike so I may take her a ride so she'll stop bugging me??? Wow. Now I'm striking out without even having to meet them. I think I've reached a new low. If I were going to trust anyone with my bike, you would be at the top of the list. >> Hey, did you get my email about this weekend? I don't want any excuses. >> We haven't been on a ride together since we rode with Tai a few summers >> ago. It should be a good group going. > > No can do this weekend... Mary gots plans... Whatever you and Mary have cooking I'm sure it will be fun. I don't have a camera handy but I'll see if I can talk some of the others in to taking some good pics. Jason W > > I say if you're not going quicker than the last time you > > took that corner then you're wasting gas tires and time... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > interested in riding on the back of a sportbike with a Ricky Racer > who has an ego problem... The problem is... While riding at a leisurely pace, looking at the scenery, and in no real hurry the cruiser crowd STILL holds me up on my Adventure.... Now I'm 300 miles from home and have a date with my wife for our 25th anniversary in 2 1/2 hours and these boat anchors are keeping me from tooling along at a VERY reasonable pace to finish the ride in a reasonable amount of time.... Tell me... Please... Why can't they move to one side of the lane and let traffic move past them? Is that asking too much? If they can't do that proficiently do you really think they belong on the road? Seriously... What's up with THAT? > The problem is... While riding at a leisurely pace, looking at the scenery, > and in no real hurry the cruiser crowd STILL holds me up on my Adventure.... > Now I'm 300 miles from home and have a date with my wife for our 25th > anniversary in 2 1/2 hours and these boat anchors are keeping me from > tooling along at a VERY reasonable pace to finish the ride in a reasonable > amount of time.... Tell me... > Please... the real problem in your above scenario is that you value your riding more than meeting your wife for your anniversary.... if not you would not have been sure to be on time...not counting on outrunning traffic to make it....priorities \> > the real problem in your above scenario is that you value your riding more > than meeting your wife for your anniversary.... if not you would not have > been sure to be on time...not counting on outrunning traffic to make > it....priorities Who said anything about out running traffic... Great f.cking imagination.... Got anything else you want to twist into a negative? My wife values the fact that I LOVE to ride. It was her idea for me to go. I went to see if one of OUR favorite camp areas was free from snow yet. She suggested I go check it out. Read the post again... I was perfectly on schedule at a SERIOUSLY leisurely pace. Not racing, not tailgating, not passing through the curves on double yellow.... The CARS and I just wanted to go on our merry way, not live life according to THEIR pace. "Why can't these boat anchors display some riding prowess and move the f.ck over?" How hard is that? Do you have an answer? Why is it that some people here love to turn it all into a negative. All I wanted to do was enjoy my ride. All the car drivers wanted to do was run these pricks over. Why do they insist on blocking traffic? That's the question. Do you have an answer or do you wish to turn this over to a negative as well? Go ahead. You've been kill-filed. > \> > > the real problem in your above scenario is that you value your riding more [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Who said anything about out running traffic... Great f.cking imagination.... > Got anything else you want to twist into a negative? you would HAVE to asswipe.... go f.ck yourself even the average third grader can figure miles per hour....21/2 hours and 300 miles, you figure it out fuckface.... > My wife values the fact that I LOVE to ride. It was her idea for me to go. > I went to see if one of OUR favorite camp areas was free from snow yet. She > suggested I go check it out. no need to explain yourself to me, *I* was just pointint out that you being late for your anniversary was not the fault of traffic, it was poor planning on YOUR part... > Read the post again... I was perfectly on schedule at a SERIOUSLY leisurely > pace. Not racing, not tailgating, not passing through the curves on double > yellow.... yeah i know...everyone covers 300 miles in 2 1/2 hours... i agree that is very reasonable...you that stoooopid? > The CARS and I just wanted to go on our merry way, not live life according > to THEIR pace. > "Why can't these boat anchors display some riding prowess and move the f.ck > over?" How hard is that? > Do you have an answer? > > Why is it that some people here love to turn it all into a negative. All I > wanted to do was enjoy my ride. oh i see...pointing out the blatantly obvious makes me negative...okay lightbulb... All the car drivers wanted to do was run > these pricks over. Why do they insist on blocking traffic? That's the > question. Do you have an answer or do you wish to turn this over to a > negative as well? Go ahead. You've been kill-filed. > The problem is... While riding at a leisurely pace, looking at > the scenery, and in no real hurry the cruiser crowd STILL holds me > up on my Adventure.... And *you* are the most important person in your own little world, aren't you? Nobody matters to you, except you. I suppose if you went to a movie theater and found a line of HD riders waiting in line, and you were running just a little late, you'd expect all the bikers to jump out of your way and let you jump to the head of the line, rather than to hold you up... I gots news for ya, bubba. The world doesn't work that way. There will *always* be other people in the world who got somewhere before you got there and you'll always have to wait your turn if you don't want to resort to rudeness and/or physical violence to get your own sociopathic way... > Now I'm 300 miles from home and have a date with my wife for our 25th > anniversary in 2 1/2 hours and these boat anchors are keeping me from > tooling along at a VERY reasonable pace to finish the ride in a reasonable > amount of time.... Tell me...Please...Why can't they move to one side > of the lane and let traffic move past them? 300 miles in 2.5 hours is a 120 mph average speed, and you think that's "reasonable" for a public road where there are motorcycles, cars, buses, and big trucks being driven by licensed drivers in a law abiding manner, but everybody should just get out of your way because you need to be different and your overweening ego is so humongous? This thread started out with Troy being upset that he couldn't drive as fast as he pleased on a 2-lane highway through a scenic canyon in the Colorado mountains on a beautiful Sunday when the people ahead of him were enjoying the mountain scenery too much for his tastes... Now I suppose you're envisioning some wide road where you could maintain a 120 mph average speed to cover the distance back home, except the "blithering" HD riders and about a bazillion cagers are driving at the speed limit or a little below and they are holding *you* back, and they don't realize that *you* are a very special person---at least in your own estimate... Maybe you just shouldn't have strayed that far from home on your little Sunday putt? > If they can't do that proficiently do you really think they belong on the > road? Seriously... What's up with THAT? The government decides who's "proficient" enough to drive, not you. When you get your own private island and singlehandedly build a freeway running around the island to take you to nowhere and back, you'll be able to say who can drive on it. You might have to make some allowances for your *wife's* poor driving though. If you don't let *her* drive on your freeway, she'll get mad and you won't get any until you do let her drive again... In some perfect utopian world, where your high standards of driving are the norm, you would have never even gotten a license, because somebody with your high standards would have gotten the job of taking you on your first driver's license road test and he would have flunked you for not being as "proficient" as him... There has to be some bare minimum standard, some "C" or "D" grade that is just barely passing, a cutoff point below which test score an applicant is denied a license. I remember my first driver's license road test. In 1961. The examiner allowed me to pass, with a rather subjective 70% score that I'm sure I probably didn't deserve... I've been driving and riding ever since. I've never rolled a vehicle over, never got arrested for drunk driving, never hit a pedestrian and killed him. And that's good enough for the government, who has let me keep my license for most of 40 years. And the cops have *never* once pulled me over to say, "You're going too slow, fellah! You're not proficient! All the drivers behind you are getting upset!" >>No, I remember quite a few rides into the mountains by >>Denver being ruined by HD riders because they were going [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > sportbikes, I don't necessarily believe that I have to see how fast I > can take every corner... Well then don't, just be polite and move your bird watchin butt to the right. > Well then don't, just be polite and move your bird watchin > butt to the right. I am very aware of the Ricky Racers on the ACH, and I usually move way over to the right long in advance of their passing and wave them by. The idiots often wonder why I am riding so slow. It is a scenic road through a national forest you know. People do want to look at the mountains and trees and rocks and squirrels and coyotes and deer and admire all that stuff... I remember the last time I was surprised by a moronic Ricky Racer on the ACH. I slowed down to look for a certain secluded scenic pullout where I could stop and look at the mountains and trees, when an idiot on a ZX-6 charged up on my a.s and he acted like he wanted to pass me on the inside, but I waved him around on the outside... We were riding through the area where those guys got killed four years ago, and I was riding safely and completely within my rights, while he was riding like a total jackass, trying to shoot the blind corners on the esses at high speed... The problem with Ricky Racers (and cagers) dying on the Angeles Crest Highway got so bad several years ago, the national forest supervisor had to raise money to pay the California Highway Patrol officers overtime to run a special enforcement action, especially on weekends when idiot wannabe roadracers would assault the highway, en masse... The whole ACH is posted for 45 mph in the lower part of the special enforcement zone or 55 mph above the cutoff to Mt. Wilson observatory. Get caught doing one of the "zero tolerance" offenses and the fine is doubled... The proportion of fatalities was about 50% Rickys and 50% cagers, but the special enforcement action seemed to be working and the supervisor announced his satisfaction that the action had worked in reducing fatalities by giving zero tolerance to speeders, tailgaters, passing over the double yellow line and failing to use turn outs when five vehicles were following a slow moving vehicle... The following weekend was the bloodiest ever in the national forest. Eight people died, half of them on motorcycles... It's a delightful series of esses at the 5000 foot level on the ACH. The esses are just after Shortcut saddle on the way to Newcomb's Ranch where lots of Rickys like to hang out. I liked that set of esses because it had no off camber turns. I remember going through those esses at 80 mph, even though the corners are blind and there was no way in hell I could ever stop if something happened... One day, about four years ago, a GSXR rider crashed in the esses, setting off the bloodiest weekend in the forest. A volunteer ranger stopped to help the down rider, parking his pickup truck crossways to block the road. Two riders leaving Newcomb's Ranch were riding at 80 mph into the blind esses. They rode over the side of the cliff trying to avoid the pickup truck hidden around a blind corner... One of the two died on the scene,, the other was in a coma for a long time and died... Other motorcyclists were killed in other parts of the national forest that weekend. I recall that a guy on a Harley hit the back end of a van on the desert side of the forest. I think he had a son on the back of his bike... People go up to the forest to fish in the creeks and lakes, camp, picnic, birdwatch, etc. They don't expect to be assaulted by Ricky Racers with fantasies of road racing glory going twice the speed limit... Heck, the editor of a sportbike magazine hit a pickup truck that was trying to turn across the highway. He broke his leg. One of the staff of another motorcycle magazine was killed under similar circumstances. When I talked to another staffer on that magazine, he said that the only thing it proved was that when a pickup truck pulls across the road and blocks you, the only thing you can do is die... Later, in a magazine article, he said he went up to the scene where his young associate had died. he took the kid's mother up there to show him where her son had died. He admitted to getting tearful at the memory of the accident... It seems like if he'd been a better role model, he wouldn't have encouraged the kid to "improve" his riding skill under such dangerous circumstances... >> Well then don't, just be polite and move your bird watchin >> butt to the right. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >mountains and trees and rocks and squirrels and coyotes and deer and >admire all that stuff... Am I the only one who's tiring of Krusty's continual "Gloom and Doom" yarns? [...] As usual, big snip of, "yes pedantic", keyboard riding rants. IOW, like ole' Dragnet Cops, "Just the facts man" and leave out all the memory induced embellishments;) Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ-deer strike recovery-(completed) 01 Sprint ST "RED" 45K miles 03 GSXR 1000 "SILVER" 7K RIP (deer slain) >>>Well then don't, just be polite and move your bird watchin >>>butt to the right. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > 01 Sprint ST "RED" 45K miles > 03 GSXR 1000 "SILVER" 7K RIP (deer slain) OK,OK, I'll throw in my (barely) 2 cents worth. It really makes no difference WHY someone is holding up traffic. The responsible driver or rider should ALWAYS allow faster traffic to pass. I have many times been passer and passee. I will ride at whatever speed I am comfortable with. If someone on a faster bike or car comes up behind me, I will allow them to pass at the soonest safe location and I expect the same in return. It is none of my business why they are going faster or slower and why would I want to judge them? However, there is no excuse for being just plain RUDE. Cars, trucks, buses, bicycles and motorcycles all use the road and have equal rights to it. None of us need to be jerks. PAul  Signature"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society" - Theodore Roosevelt > OK,OK, I'll throw in my (barely) 2 cents worth. It really makes no > difference WHY someone is holding up traffic. The responsible driver or [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > RUDE. Cars, trucks, buses, bicycles and motorcycles all use the road > and have equal rights to it. None of us need to be jerks. I agree with you 100%, Paul. SignatureJamin Kortegard a popular motorcycle / a popular car "Hokey 600s and trackday usability are no match for a good literbike at your side, kid." - Michael >>> Well then don't, just be polite and move your bird watchin >>> butt to the right. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Am I the only one who's tiring of Krusty's continual "Gloom and Doom" > yarns? You just seem to dislike him for not revealing his contact details, right? That is his choice and who can blame him? I think that he has obvious journalistic talent and quite a balanced perspective. Surely he has earned a place in the AMS Hall of Fame? (not to be confused with "Hall of Flame") > [...] As usual, big snip of, "yes pedantic", keyboard riding rants. > IOW, like ole' Dragnet Cops, "Just the facts man" and leave out all [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 01 Sprint ST "RED" 45K miles > 03 GSXR 1000 "SILVER" 7K RIP (deer slain) On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:31:03 GMT, "Yanni c\)k" <yann452@wandoo.fr> wrote: [...] >> Am I the only one who's tiring of Krusty's continual "Gloom and Doom" >> yarns? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >journalistic talent and quite a balanced perspective. Surely he has earned >a place in the AMS Hall of Fame? (not to be confused with "Hall of Flame") With more than five years of hiding in the corners of AMS, then telling these obviously embellished stories. Then no, Krusty does not earn a spot in the AMS hall of fame, IMHO. He's great with wrenching details on the "OLD bikes" but that's about as far as it goes. You're correct though in that I don't like him for the reasons you mention but he's also such a sanctimonious old bastard, that he makes me just want to slap him upside the head, at times. And basically no one REALLY knows if the guy exists away from his keyboard. The bottom line is that he can't have it both ways: Be a figurative authority while not revealing his sources or not providing any REAL statistics or just as he's claiming about Phil Scott Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ-deer strike recovery-(completed) 01 Sprint ST "RED" 45K miles 03 GSXR 1000 "SILVER" 7K RIP (deer slain) > On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:31:03 GMT, "Yanni c\)k" <yann452@wandoo.fr> > wrote: [snip] > >You just seem to dislike him for not revealing his contact details, right? > >That is his choice and who can blame him? I think that he has obvious [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > You're correct though in that I don't like him for the reasons you > mention but he's also such a sanctimonious old bastard [snip] Ah. So it's territorial? -- Michael > Am I the only one who's tiring of Krusty's continual "Gloom and Doom" > yarns? apparently...... > Am I the only one who's tiring of Krusty's continual "Gloom and Doom" > yarns? No. I'm skimming them, similar to how I read Phil's scientology rants. SignatureJamin Kortegard a popular motorcycle / a popular car "Hokey 600s and trackday usability are no match for a good literbike at your side, kid." - Michael > Am I the only one who's tiring of Krusty's continual "Gloom and Doom" > yarns? I thought I was the only one who noticed.... Jesus.. this guy talks about enjoying the scenery and loving to ride. I doubt there's anything enjoyable about his life OR his riding. He's one pissed off dude. >>Well then don't, just be polite and move your bird watchin >>butt to the right. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > mountains and trees and rocks and squirrels and coyotes and deer and > admire all that stuff... That's what the scenics overlooks are for. They give one something nice to admire while they rest up between laps. > It seems like if he'd been a better role model, he wouldn't have > encouraged the kid to "improve" his riding skill under such dangerous > circumstances... Doesn't sound like the roads are too twisty out your way Krusty. If you are running 80 mph through them then I'd say they are hardly even bent let alone twisty roads. I agree that that is too fast to be diving around blind corners...though I admit I've done my share of it. > Doesn't sound like the roads are too twisty out your way Krusty. > If you are running 80 mph through them then I'd say they > are hardly even bent let alone twisty roads. I agree that that > is too fast to be diving around blind corners...though I > admit I've done my share of it. http://www.pashnit.com/roads/cal/AngelsCrest.htm That's a fairly accurate assessment of what has been going on up on the Crest over the last few years. There's a map on that page and you can see there's a bunch of squiggles and for all somebody would know just glancing at the meandering line, it could be running along a creek through a valley... But the name Angeles *Crest* Highway should be a tip off. This road runs as close to the top of the San Gabriel mountains as the engineers could cut their grades on the way to the ski slopes... How fast can you ride? How fast do you dare to ride? How's your driving record? Got points? Got medical insurance? Got luck? Good luck, you'll need it. John Law is watching the Crest, but riders are still squirreling around up there, and mostly getting away with it... Sportriders meet in La Crescenta, usually at the Shell station, before beginning their early morning assault on the mountain. Gotta start early to beat the cages. Some riders call themselves "two timers". They will ride up to Newcomb's Ranch, or even Wrightwood, if the road is open all the way, twice on a Sunday... Riding up out of La Crescenta the 2-lane road rises quickly, there are fast sweepers where enthusiastic riders might try to ride 70 or even 80 mph in a 45 mph zone watched by deputies of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department as well as the California Highway Patrol... There are scenic lookouts where carloads of tourists can try to peer through the smog toward the famous Rose Bowl in Pasadena or the almost as famous Jet Propulsion Laboratory... Sportriders shouldn't be riding faster than around 35 mph as they reach these scenic lookouts where cars may be crossing the road at blind corners right in front of them... Clinging to the eastern slopes of a steep mountain above the Arroyo Seco (which is usually dry but did help to flood Los Angeles in the late 1930's, washing houses down the Los Angeles river to the sea)the lower twisties of the Angeles Crest allow the Sunday sportrider to easily ride at 70 mph, perhaps slipping and sliding a bit in the oil, transmission fluid, and grease deposited by weekday commuters who drive to Palmdale... The road passes a fire station, where vehicles of the Mountain Rescue team might be seen parked. Sometimes cars go off the side, into the canyon below. The rescue team pulls the survivors out. Sometimes they pull bodies out. There are cars down in the canyon that will remain there forever... The road trends toward the northeast, it's a road that's going somewhere, it's not dilly-dallying around. Perceptive riders may notice something a little strange about the grading of the road... Regardless of which way the road turns, the grading is *always" toward the mountain, not toward the cliff. Rainwater drains toward the mountain, goes through a pipe under the road, and over into Deep Canyon far below.... The Angeles Forest Highway junction at Clear Creek is about 10 miles from the bottom of the hill. There's a trail up Josephine Peak at that point. Rock climbers can climb rocks. The riders don't care... The sportriders have reached the first saddle connecting ridges. They are on the crest of the San Gabriel mountains. They can look down into steep canyons on both sides of the road, if they dare take their eyes off the road ahead... The sportriders will reach the junction in ten minutes or less, if they don't get caught behind a car that fails to pull out. They will be having capital-F Fun if nobody slows them down... There's an information station and a permanent restroom. Hikers and campers can inquire about trail conditions and get maps and take a crap. The riders don't care. They're not planning to hike anywhere... The straight road is a little bumpy, descending past the entrance to Schwitzer's pocnic grounds. Frost heaves challenge the high speed compression damping of their forks. There's a waterfall at Schwitzer's, too. The sportriders will never stop there... At the Strawberry Mountain, there are cars parked at the trail head. Silly hikers! The road starts to climb again. It's getting go-o-o-o-d! Fast esses and sweepers lead to two hairpin corners called "The Carousel". The sportriders enjoy leaning their bikes over in the stair-stepping carousel that rapidly gains altitude toward Mt. Wilson... One last big decreasing radius climbing sweeper and they're into the final esses before Red Box... There's a big red box for fire fighting tools at the Mt. Wilson junction. For some mysterious reason, the junction is named "Red Box". Believe it or not, some tourists drive over to Mt. Wilson to look at the view of the cities of Los Angeles and Pasadena, laid out before them on a clear day. The sportriders will not be looky-lou's, they are headed for Newcomb's Ranch... If they have radar detectors mounted to their handlebars, they may be getting false signals as they pass the radomes and antennas on the ridge across the canyon... Again the road descends, clinging to the side of the mountain, ess-curving and sweeping deliciously, and then the road begins to climb again, essing and sweeping up toward Barley Flat. That is the first point where they are sure to be riding 100 mph---on the straight before Barley Flat... They pass the junction with Upper Big Tujunga Road. They know it as "Nine Mile" or "Shortcut", because it's nine miles long, and it's a shortcut back to Angeles Forest Highway. Nine Mile is even faster than the Angeles Crest. The nine miles can be ridden in less than eight minutes. I did it. Fifty-two curves, I counted 'em. Big sweepers. Capital F Fun, as long as you don't hit an antlered rat... Passing under the power lines at 90 mph, the Crest runs along the Shortcut Saddle that connects one ridgeline to another. There are steep canyons on both sides of the saddle... Shortcut isn't really named "Shortcut" because of the Nine Mile Road, it's a shortcut up from Pasadena. Newcomb was a World War 2 fighter pilot. he flew P-51 Mustangs. But his father, or grandfather actually walked on his two hind legs up from Pasadena and blazed a shortcut trail. Savvy dirtbike riders know where the trail is, but the sportriders have no idea it exists as they exit the saddle and follow the north side of the San Gabriel mountains through delightful esses and sweepers, past the site where those two riders died at the 5000 foot marker... It's great riding, there are few strange cambers, but suddenly the road takes a sweeping left turn onto a short saddle leading to more 90 and 100 mph straights on lovely banked sweepers before Charleton Flats. That sweeping left turn can lead an unwary rider off into a canyon... Charlton flats is a big picnic ground where silly cagers barbecue hot dogs and drink beer on Sunday. There's a telephone there. Sometimes sportriders use it to call 911 for their buddies who've crashed and are turning grey... But there's a wide straight through the pine trees and the huge Coulter pine cones rarely fall on the road. The riders pass the picnic grounds without a thought of going there... Charleton Flats rolls a little up and a little down and a little up and and a little down. It's on top of the San Gabriel mountains... The sweepers are fast and there are big rocks and pine trees alongside the road. Maybe there are a few coyotes hiding in there. There are deer for sure, one of the regulars at Newcomb's runs Eidelweiss Tours out of Wrightwood. He hit a deer in that area and killed it. Cut it in two. The signs say there are bears up there, don't feed them. The sportriders are going much too fast to be reading signs... They sweep on past Chilao fire station, around the last big uphill sweeper, past Devil's Canyon and past the Chilao Visitor Center where they might learn something about the national forest, its geology and ecology, if they give a hoot. They are on the final straight to Newcomb's Ranch and they want to arrive in style, banging quick downshifts and making lots of noise, parking, and slapping hands, and bragging about who did what when and who was the fastest and whether anybody saw any CHP's... The whole ride took about half an hour or less, and they are only half way to Wrightwood. The Angeles Crest Highway gets even *faster* after Newcomb's Ranch. About three miles up the road, past Three Points, there's a 140-mph straight, for anybody with the balls to go that fast on a mountain road. There's a bend in the middle of the straight, but you don't notice it if you're only going, say, 100 mph... >From Three Points to the end of that wickedly fast straight, the riders will climb 1000 feet in less than 3 minutes... The cambers of the Angeles Crest begin to become very strange as the road passes the first of the two ski slopes at Mt. Waterman. The road sweeps and esses and there's a lovely sweeping lefthand turn as the Crest ascends toward Panorama, one of the slowest curves on the mountain. The sportiders will be reaching 80 or 90 mph up to Panorama, they will lay their bikes over in the 180 degree right hand curve between the big rocks, going around at maybe 45 mph. Then they will get back on the gas again heading up what they think is going to be a fairly straight stretch toward Cloudburst Summit at the 7000 foot level... But the road tricks them. There's a wide off camber paved area, and they slide into it at 70 mph. If they can't stop, they go over a dirt berm at the infamous Squid's Leap and wind up riding down a steep rocky slope to the Pacific Crest Trail. More hiker stuff. If they survive Squid's, it's more esses and sweepers and off-cambered corners past Kratka Ridge ski slope and the road clings to the north side of the San Gabriels overlooking the Mojave desert thousands of feet below. The road passes Eagle's Roost and some rocks that silly rock climbers like to climb on, but the sportrider's don't care a bit. They won't be looking for big horn mountain sheep either, as they head for the tunnels before Islip Saddle... Mountain Islip is geologically unstable. Highway 39, a road up from Azusa to reach the ski resorts without going through Pasadena, has been closed since the 1970's. CalTrans hopes to open it again in a few years, if they can figure out how to keep the road from falling off the mountain down into the west fork of the San Gabriel river again... After Mount Islip the Crest gets really slow and twisty and there are a lot of rocks falling off the steep slopes. If Cal Trans hasn't cleared the rocks off the road that day, it's an exercise in rock dodging... Then the road gets fast again, going past Mt. Baden-Powell, where the Boy Scouts built a hiking trail up from Vincent Gap at about 6000 feet to the 9000 foot summit. It's awesome up there, a mile about the San Gabriel River and the Mojave desert, but the sportriders don't care about such hikerish interests, they will ride on in more fast sweepers and esses, passing Blue Ridge Summit at 8000 feet, and ignoring the turnout at Inspiration Point, where the backside of 10,000 foot Mount San Antonio (Baldy) can be seen... Those fast esses and sweepers lead to Wrightwood, gasoline for their motorbikes, food for their stomach if they didn't breakfast at Newcomb's. The whole ride has taken a bit over an hour of road time, not counting stops. It's 66 miles from La Crescenta to Wrightwood, but the riders might not want to return to Los Angeles via the Angeles Crest, they may backtrack to Big Pines and take the N4 down the desert side toward Little Rock reservoir and turn onto Fort Tejon Road and Mt. Emma road (can you say 160 mph?, would you *dare* to ride 160 mph through the desert, on an almost deserted road with maybe just a few dirtbikers that might cross the road?), then to the really fast Angeles Forest Highway, with its 140 mph straight leading past the now-closed Kentucky shooting range into more faster sweepers, and back to the Angeles Crest to descend into La Crescenta again... >> Doesn't sound like the roads are too twisty out your way Krusty. >> If you are running 80 mph through them then I'd say they [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >glancing at the meandering line, it could be running along a creek >through a valley... Skip the pedantic rambling, KJ. Why? We all saw several videos of the Angeles Crest few months back at a good pace with decent riders. I found your attempt at describing the crest as nothing more than some jackass (who gets sidetracked far too much) & who doesn't know or have a modern I-net connection and or the equipment to tape said. Only then could you have described the ride in some detail and have the group follow along with enjoyment;) As usual. bigtime snipola [...] Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ-deer strike recovery-(completed) 01 Sprint ST "RED" 45K miles 03 GSXR 1000 "SILVER" 7K RIP (deer slain) My goodness... you do blither so well.... >>Well then don't, just be polite and move your bird watchin >>butt to the right. [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > on the desert side of the forest. I think he had a son on the back of > his bike... I remember sitting up there the little cafe (hidden springs maybe?) eating breakfast with Peckhammer, Girl Wonder and our buddy Jim around this time (Early Sept '01.) There was a really really nice Norton in the parking lot. About 1/2 way through the meal a motocop came in and had his coffee. He noted that the guy on the Norton was someone he had recently ticketed, and they laughed. Anyhow we were all sitting around the cafe bar, and he told us tons of horror stories, including someone hitting an Emu up there. He had a deer strike too, but didn't go down. We all got our 'Save The Crest" keychains from him. Luckily only Jim was on a bike, the rest of us were in a rented mustang ragtop, having gone to California Superbike School the previous day. SignatureAndrew 00 Speed Triple 00 Daytona > I remember sitting up there the little cafe > (hidden springs maybe?) eating breakfast with Peckhammer, > Girl Wonder and our buddy Jim around > this time (Early Sept '01 Hidden Springs Cafe has big sign that says "Cider" so some people know it as the "Cider Cafe". It's just north of the tunnel on the Angeles Forest Highway. The parking lot is gravel... Newcomb's Ranch is 25 miles northeast of La Crescenta on the Angles Crest Highway. It was sold about two years ago to some Asians, but they are aware of the value of an established sportbike clientele... Newcomb's was open 7 days a week, last time I was there, and it has a paved parking lot. It gets all the sportbike attention, the Hidden Springs Cafe just gets a few riders... >>I remember sitting up there the little cafe >>(hidden springs maybe?) eating breakfast with Peckhammer, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > paved parking lot. It gets all the sportbike attention, the Hidden > Springs Cafe just gets a few riders... Yeah we stopped in at newcomb's too. SignatureAndrew 00 Speed Triple 00 Daytona > I am very aware of the Ricky Racers on the ACH, and I usually move way > over to the right long in advance of their passing and wave them by. I don't believe this sh.t for a second. If it smells like bullshit... >> Unfortunately, today, no one was riding dangerously. Not them, >> not me, they were just going SLOW...REAL slow. > > Huh? How would it be "fortunate" for the everybody on the road if > somebody *was* riding dangerously? Because its fun for the people being dangerous!! Isn't it? I mean...why would you be doing something putting yourself and everyone else at risk if it wasn't fun! Isn't that the squidling stunna arguement for why they should be allowed to do wheelies through crowded intersections? So they can have fun, get noticed, and put everyone in jeopardy of their idiocy? >> I didn't want to go FAST for 5 minutes, I just wanted a >> reasonable speed down the canyon today, and that could ahve [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > reasonable and you didn't, but they were ahead of you, and you reasoned > that it would be unsafe to pass them. I wouldn't deem it "unsafe" as much as "rude".....I'm never quite certain how to handle other bikes on the street. At the track? No problem....you pass them, wherever, whenever within the rules of "guy in front has right of way", but the street? If the Hardley guys had all shifted right to allow me and the R1 by in the same lane, that would have been cool...and reasonably easy....but nope...staggered formation....groups of 2 and 3 at a time...I would have had to be....not unsafe....but rude for sure. Rude while encountering people of unknown and possibly low skill levels...not good...sometimes the street only folks get awful spooked when someone pops up on their 9'o clock at a range of 2 feet. > So everybody turned out to be > reasonable people and you all got home safely and nobody called the > cops to say there's a rider down in the canyon and the cops were happy > that they didn't have to send the meat wagon out to pick any reasonably > dead body up... Yep...it sucked....I was reasonable. Its easy to be reasonable when you don't have any money in it. >> Today, no one was being dangerous. But I would have liked to >> have the CHOICE to do so. > > Couldn't you just fantasize about doing something dangerous on your > Sunday ride? Hold back on the real dangerous stuff until you get to a > track day? Yes but the road was mine too! It was just unfair....usually a ride down that canyon on a day like today is a good thing, a nice thing, a gently weaving, gently leaning over while carving thing.....seems like such a waste to putter down it like we're a bunch of grandma's on our way to church....in a Buick....with bald tires....with no tread....and bad shocks..... > Out here in the country, there's a lot less of that kind of traffic, > but there's more heavy trucks and agricultural equipment and people > driving out of muddy fields onto the pavement and leaving big clods of > dirt. So I still take it easy, pretty much sticking to the speed > limits.... Sunday afternoon is, admittedly, not the best time to run a canyon around here for just those reasons. Shawn and I would get started around 7:30AM on a weekend to miss the large percentage of slow cagers and slow bikes plus the tourist count is climbing the nicer the weather gets. >> who jammed up a perfectly nice canyon ride to the point >> where you were backing up even the lame a.s cagers.... [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] >The cruiser and HD riders may be frustrating, but who is the one riding >dangerously, anyway? Not all the info is getting back to RMH. Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ-deer strike recovery-(completed) 01 Sprint ST "RED" 45K miles 03 GSXR 1000 "SILVER" 7K RIP (deer slain) > The cruiser and HD riders may be frustrating, but who is the one riding > dangerously, anyway? Riding in a manner likely to frustrate other motorists is dangerous, I think. Frustration becomes it's own danger as it accumulates, as it affects our ability to accurately perceive and calculate risk. I usually take some sort of action to avert or minimize the frustration, whether it's passing a bunch of road hogs or stopping for gas earlier than I planned to. Sometimes there's not much to be done. That's when it's best to simply choose to not allow circumstances to get you too riled up, lest you stop making sound judgments. SignatureJamin Kortegard a popular motorcycle / a popular car "Hokey 600s and trackday usability are no match for a good literbike at your side, kid." - Michael > Riding in a manner likely to frustrate other motorists > is dangerous, I think. For who, the law abiding driver, or the hot headed tailgater? I remember an incident when I was lawfully occupying the left hand lane, entering the town of Santa Barbara. I was doing the speed limit and there is no law in California requiring somebody to move over for a speeder who want to pass. That statement above may lead to numerous attempts to argue, but that's the way it is, nobody has to get over for speeders on California multi-lane highways... But a white trash grungeball in a junker 1964 Chevelle came up behind me, gesturing, ranting and raving at me, and I did nothing except laugh at him. He passed on the right, which he could have done without getting all angry and excited, and jumped out of his junker and stood beside the road, wanting to fist fight me. I just laughed and kept driving. He didn't know what was sitting on the seat beside me, and I won't get into that either. > Frustration becomes it's own danger as it accumulates, as > it affects our ability to accurately perceive and calculate risk. I have found the best strategy is to give the other guy room and respect his choice to obey the rules, and enjoy the simple pleasure of getting out on the road and looking at the scenery, instead of succumbing to the temptation to turn the highway into a race track... > I usually take some sort of action to avert or minimize > the frustration, whether it's passing a bunch of road hogs > or stopping for gas earlier than I planned to. Well, now, the definition of what a "road hog" is seems to have changed. A "road hog" is somebody coming the other way on a two lane highway, and he's taking part of your lane and you have to move over to the right to avoid him. A car ahead of you in the lane going the speed limit when you want to exceed it is not a "road hog", he's not being rude, but you are being rude if you're tailgating him and flashing your light and expecting him to move over so you can stroke your own ego... > Sometimes there's not much to be done. That's when it's best > to simply choose to not allow circumstances to get you too > riled up, lest you stop making sound judgments. When I was younger, I was the world's biggest a.shole on two wheels or four wheels. I did get hot headed, I expected everybody to get out of my way, because I thought I was something special, entitled to go as fast as I pleased, anywhere I pleased... But some impersonal police officers and judges convinced me of the error of may ways, and I drive a whole lot more meekly and politely now... >>Riding in a manner likely to frustrate other motorists >>is dangerous, I think. [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > error of may ways, and I drive a whole lot more meekly and politely > now... I do have to comment here Krusty, I have talked with several CHP officers who have all said that letting a faster vehicle pass is by far the smartest thing to do. Does it REALLY make a gnat's a.s of difference if they are ahead of you? You are most likely safer with them ahead of you anyway. Just my input. Ride safely! Paul Signature"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society" - Theodore Roosevelt > I do have to comment here Krusty, I have talked with several CHP > officers who have all said that letting a faster vehicle pass > is by far the smartest thing to do. Does it REALLY make a > gnat's a.s of difference if they are ahead of you? You are > most likely safer with them ahead of you anyway. Just my > input. Ride safely! Yes, I know that police officers will say that. They don't want to have to get involved with road rage situations, make arrests, fill out paperwork, appear in court, testify, etc., so they say things like that. Anybody in any job would usually like to reduce his workload and goof off a bit. The CHP has been goofing off for long enough, IMO... However, if they should happen to actually spot somebody behaving like that white trash grungeball in the Chevelle, they will get involved, they will arrest him, handcuff him and haul him down town... The cops arrested a drunk in a pickup truck that almost rear ended me, hauled him off to the drunk tank. They also arrested an armed drug dealer who nearly rear ended me and who fled when he saw the police car behind him. I had to appear in court several times on that incident. He had a drug warrant and the gun was stolen... None of these nut cases thought there was anything wrong with their driving at all, and they actually believed in their feeble logic that it was me that was doing something wrong... There are adequate laws on non-controlled access highways in CA. On non-controlled access 4 lane highways, passing is allowed on the right, so the speed demon can go by if the right lane is clear. If it's a non-controlled access single lane road, slower traffic is supposed to move as far to the right as possible without driving on the shoulder if an overtaking vehicle wants to drive at the maximum or prima facie speed limit and signals by flashing its lights or blowing its horn. Even if the overtaken vehicle's driver believes that he is already driving at the prima facie speed for the conditions, he still has to move over... And then there is the law that indicates that a driver must drive at the "normal" speed on any particular road for that time of day, he can't lollygag around and window shop or bird watch, he has to drive the normal speed, which doesn't mean that he has to speed or get out of the way of a speed demon, though it may be wise to do so if the driver is really acting threateningly or erratically... And, if all law abiding motorists would just give up the number 1 lane to the self-absorbed speed demons, the highway patrol's job would be much easier. They could just pick any vehicle in that lane, clock it, and detain the driver. I have heard CHP officer state that there was something about that number 1 lane that attracted speeders, but they didn't know what it was. All lanes on a multi-lane highway was the same speed limit, unless otherwise posted... But there would be a different problem ensuing from all law abiding traffic driving in the number 2 lane (the number 3 and 4 lanes are truck lanes, according to the truckers, some, but not all truckers obey the 55 mph limit on their vehicles). If there is bumper to bumper traffic at 65 mph in the number 2 lane, the speed demons would be cutting the law-abiding motorists off to enter and exit what they consider to be their personal race track... > When I was younger, I was the world's biggest a.shole on two wheels or > four wheels. I did get hot headed, I expected everybody to get out of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > error of may ways, and I drive a whole lot more meekly and politely > now... Driving meekly doesn't appeal to me. Being an a.shole in traffic doesn't either. I always ride or drive at a pace I think is appropriate for the situation. Sometimes that's the posted limit. Sometimes more, sometimes less. If there are other motorists in front of me who have decided to travel more slowly than me, I get around them if I can. Or if I can't, I wait until I can, and then I get around them. While waiting for that chance I don't honk, flash the lights, tailgate, or grind my teeth. I just wait and watch for a safe opportunity to pass. The only time I truly get frustrated by other drivers is when they are driving (or riding) in a manner that I think is unsafe. Usually this is some form of not paying attention: talking on the phone, talking to a passenger, reading a map, gawking at the countryside, etc. When I see behavior like this, I will do whatever I have to in order to separate myself from it. Usually it's changing lanes and/or passing. Sometimes it's taking an alternate route. The road is for driving, people. If you want to sightsee, park the car and enjoy the view. Or if you like sightseeing in motion, get on a tour bus with all the other sightseers. If you're lost, pull over to check your map. Don't try to orient your compass and operate your GPS while simultaneously calling Aunt Eunice for directions to the family reunion and at the same time trying to keep your 3-ton Suburban in your own lane. If that's how you want to drive, with an egregious lack of consideration not only for other motorists but also for you and your passengers' safety, then I guess you can go ahead and do that. It is a (mostly) free country after all. Just don't be surprised when I take and opportunity to get around you. Consideration goes both ways, folks. I won't be a jackass if you're not a dumbass. SignatureJamin Kortegard a popular motorcycle / a popular car "Hokey 600s and trackday usability are no match for a good literbike at your side, kid." - Michael I was doing the speed limit > and there is no law in California requiring somebody to move over for a > speeder who want to pass. I was right... You ARE a citizen speed bump. f.ck all you, I'm going the speed limit... Pompous pricks... without regard for what's going on in ANYBODY else's life. Maybe they were speeding for a reason? Wife just called from the hospital and little Timmy's got a concussion? Maybe he's late for the ONE meeting that'll help his family have a better life? Maybe the driver's just a prick and thinks everybody should get the hell out of the way... But really... who the f.ck do you think YOU are? I'll tell ya. You're one bitter, negative old f.cker without joy. It must be lonely for you, there, alone in your room at your computer.... > I was right... You ARE a citizen speed bump. f.ck all you, I'm going the > speed limit... as you said in your other post "if it smell like bullshit"... its very appropriate here...the "speed limit" is just that...(sound it out then look up the words)....now several southeastern states also post the "minimum"(look it up too).... you "going the speed limit" is fine, but it does not require everyone else to stay pinned to the number on the sign.... it is the limit, the maximum, not the requirement.... so "f.ck you all"....f.cking young punk a.s bitches like you make me laugh...no really the world does revolve around you ..... > But really... who the f.ck do you think YOU are? the question goes both ways roundmouth... > I was right... You ARE a citizen speed bump. f.ck all you, I'm going the > speed limit... Why are you replying to older messages that are two weeks old? Have you been on vacation (or incarcerated)? Are you trying to get caught up on telling the whole world your point of view at al once? > Pompous pricks... without regard for what's going on in ANYBODY > else's life. Maybe th |
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