Opinion on CBR1100XX
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Damien Sawyer - 20 Jun 2005 01:31 GMT Hi all,
I'm considering purchasing a CBR1100XX and was hoping to get the opinion of a few owners. I thought that this would be as good a place as anywhere.
I have a mate who used to have a CBR1000 circa mid 80's. He said that whilst it was a pretty good bike, there was a very (very!) annoying reasonance that kicked in at around the 100-120kph mark - basically the speeds where most touring is done (well should be done) in Australia.
He said that after an hour on the bike - your hands were so numb it made the ride very unplesant. He put 10's of thousands of kilometers on it in outback Western Australia... so I respect his opinion on that particular model. A few years back, I got to ride a mid 90's CBR 1000 a few hundred k's and noticed the same thing.
My question is, does anyone know if the Super Blackbird exhibits this or any other annoying behaviour? The dealer is good enough to give me 10 minute runs around the block, but not anywhere where I can get the thing upto any sort of touring speeds.
Thanks very much in advance
DS
Phil - 20 Jun 2005 02:06 GMT The CBR1100XX has a counterbalanced engine and is well known for being ultra smooth. If this bike is not smooth enough, then I doubt anything will be. Phil
> Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > DS Daniel Bannon - 20 Jun 2005 05:04 GMT >Hi all,
>My question is, does anyone know if the Super Blackbird exhibits this or any >other annoying behaviour? The dealer is good enough to give me 10 minute [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >DS This is a general-purpose sportbike newsgroup. For specifics on the dos equis, try:
http://www.cbr1100xxforums.org/forum/
The mid-80s CBR1100 has little relation to the XX other than engine configuration, but the latter's a conceptual descendant. Honda's had an inline literbike in the lineup for many years, never mind the occasional V-4 (e.g. 1985 1000R). '87 saw the Hurricane 1000 (and 600), genesis for many, many successful bikes to follow.
The Hurricane 1000 was a superbike of the day, a take-no-prisoners answer to Suzuki's then-dominant GSX-R1100. As I recall, the Gixxer still held the handling edge, though the Honda had superior dragstrip numbers. The big Hurricane spawned the CBR1000 F series, aimed towards general-purpose and sport-tour rather than ultimate drop-dead track performance. Remember, these were the days when 750s usually carried the track-performance banner due to Superbike regulations.
Almost every inline-four I owned in the 80s had substantial handlebar vibration problems, including my '84 FJ1100. Times change: the XX has at least one counterbalancer. I've done several long trips on the bike without any vibration issues, and commute a couple days per week about 90Km R/T. You'll have a sore butt before tired hands.
The only "annoying behavior" I've noted in 35,000 miles on my '99 XX is the annoying tendency of the engine to write checks the chassis and suspension can't cash. This, despite substantial suspension upgrades: the stock shock and forks on this bike are a sad affair. A liter inline displacing about 1150cc exhibits substantial engine flywheel effect, combined with a lot of mass (560 lbs wet, roughly). The XX resists flicking side-to-side transitions and appears very sensitive to throttle input. The latter works both ways, though: I've never seen such a large bike with such effective engine braking. Chalk that up to high compression and interesting fuel-injection mapping.
One the engine spools up, get the hell out of the way: the bike takes off like a raped ape. On a fast, sweeping-turn road where the pace is 100+ mph, nothing sporting hard luggage can touch it (e.g. Hwy 530 towards Darrington, for you WA State residents). Torque's good, too, for an inline. Try and throw it around like a middleweight, though, and you'll feel every pound. The bike requires a very physical riding style to ride hard in the corners, and even so must be thrashed very hard to keep up with fast riders on nimbler machines.
If you have a long commute, do two-up riding, take trips, and want a bike that always starts in the morning, consider the XX. You'll also need to not mind learning to manage a long, heavy sportbike with tons of engine. The technology's largely obsolete, being a model-year 1996 design, but it's a testament to Honda's usual genius the bike's survived ten model years with only one major upgrade (1999). Blackbirds have a worldwide following, too, with vast tribal knowledge resources.
(If it's repalcd by a V-5 the next year or two, I'll have to sell mine, but hey: who could resist a V-5 fer cryin' out loud? Stay tuned.)
Blackbirds will not suffer squids, kids, or jackasses, nor will any modern liter sportbike. I think this, the ZX-12, and Hayabusa all fit an interesting drag-bike or GT sort of niche that appears to be fading away. If there is such a thing as "Grand Touring" motorcycle, this is it. I'd seriously examine the other two as well in your search, though, both being more-modern designs that fulfill roughly the same purpose.
On the other hand, if you like Honda but want something easier to deal with and less "oh Christ I just spooled it up to 200kph and I'm still in third gear," take a close look at the Honda VFR Interceptor. They're lighter, leaner, mellower, with an equally vast cult following and (nowadays) plenty of nice Honda accessories. Hard bags come to mind as a must-have. The big revision of '01(?) seems to be a love-or-hate affair. As do-all motorcycles these are (still) tough-to-beat.
Hope that helps.
'----------------------------------------------------- ' Daniel Bannon ' NW WA State, U.S.A. ' 2003 ZX636B Hercusaki, 1999 CBR1100XX '-----------------------------------------------------
Damien Sawyer - 20 Jun 2005 16:16 GMT Thanks Daniel,
That's exactly what I needed to read.
It's interesting that you mentioned the VFR - that's actually the bike I went down to the dealer on Saturday to see. The sales guy didn't have any on the floor and so proceeded to stick me on the CBR600/1000s and 1100XX for test rides. He then gave me a line that the VFR is more of an "old man's bike" and that the 1100XX is much more suited for me demographic (I'm 31).
This same sales guy did no less than 9 'high' monos on the CBR1000 he accompanied me on during my Blackbird test ride.
In any case - you've pretty much confirmed my inner concerns. The Blackbird is probably too big for the type of riding I enjoy. I think that I'm going to have a look at the VFR. I always liked the old 750s (I very nearly bought one in 1996... it came a close second place to a Ducati 750 Sport).
Thanks again for the detailed response.
DS
>>Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > ' 2003 ZX636B Hercusaki, 1999 CBR1100XX > '----------------------------------------------------- _Bob_Nixon - 20 Jun 2005 17:51 GMT >Thanks Daniel, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Thanks again for the detailed response. Consider the Sprint ST. It has nearly the same ergos but more grunt and every bit as smooth (actually smoother) and reliable. Why folks shy away from Triumph's to some silly name brand bike is far beyond my comprehension. The object is to get the best bike for your dollar not some name brand that will make you "feel OK" around your buds.
Sorry for the rant but the VFR is getting way long in the tooth and only has 788 cc's or hardy a good two up touring bike compared to the 1050cc Sprint with identical weight, size and better performance. Also the Sprint is available with ABS later this year and no lame a.s linked brakes.
PS. Try to find factory heated grips or stock 'lectric plug for the VFR and those ugly hard bags. Please...
Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ 01 Sprint ST "RED" 45K miles
Andrew - 20 Jun 2005 18:50 GMT >>Thanks Daniel, >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ > 01 Sprint ST "RED" 45K miles I agree! There's probably a decent dealer network in AU.
 Signature Andrew 00 Daytona 00 Speed Triple RCOS #7
Daniel Bannon - 21 Jun 2005 05:25 GMT >I agree! >There's probably a decent dealer network in AU. There certainly is in New Zealand: Thunderbike Bars baybeeeeeee!
Cliffy had a great ride in NZ a couple weeks ago. We should all be so bold and take a trip there for the riding alone.
'----------------------------------------------------- ' Daniel Bannon ' NW WA State, U.S.A. ' 2003 ZX636B Hercusaki, 1999 CBR1100XX '-----------------------------------------------------
Andrew - 21 Jun 2005 05:31 GMT >>I agree! >>There's probably a decent dealer network in AU. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Cliffy had a great ride in NZ a couple weeks ago. We should all be so > bold and take a trip there for the riding alone. Sheep?
 Signature Andrew 00 Speed Triple 00 Daytona RCOS #7
Tweak - 23 Jun 2005 17:56 GMT > Blackbirds will not suffer squids, kids, or jackasses, nor will any > modern liter sportbike. I think this, the ZX-12, and Hayabusa all fit [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > though, both being more-modern designs that fulfill roughly the same > purpose. I do find my busa hard to beat on state highway road trips of the few hundred mile variety. When those trips come up, invariably the ST1100 (and the rest) get left in the garage.
 Signature Tweak
F r e e - 23 Jun 2005 10:44 GMT
"Damien Sawyer" <damo@nospam.com>
the XX is a magical bike, its not outstanding in any category but its second best in all of them (touring, two-up, sweet communting in the city, sporty (be it straigh shots or twisties) , amateur level track capable) and it has an engine and a reliability thats puts it still in the top 5 after all the years (year after year its in the top 5 of the Bike of the year polls in GB, Germany, Spain, ....)
The new Triumph ST is a serious contender, but its not as comfy for you our your babe (heat, height)
_Bob_Nixon - 23 Jun 2005 16:43 GMT >"Damien Sawyer" <damo@nospam.com> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >The new Triumph ST is a serious contender, but its not as comfy for you our >your babe (heat, height) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It's smaller or VFR size and unlike the XX comes with a host of FACTORY touring accessories. The best you can do with the XX is buy half assed Givi bags and kludge your own heated grips and electric accesory plug.
On the Blackbird: I tend to agree with the above except that the XX is geared for the "big and tall" and is a stretch for a 5' 9"er like myself. It's also a Honda which means it has two strikes against it right out of the gate-:)
Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ 01 Sprint ST "RED" 45K miles
F r e e - 23 Jun 2005 17:11 GMT
"_Bob_Nixon" <bilbo@nospam.com> escribió en el mensaje
> It's smaller or VFR size and unlike the XX comes with a host of > FACTORY touring accessories. The best you can do with the XX is buy > half assed Givi bags and kludge your own heated grips and electric > accesory plug. I'm not an 'accesory-man'* but with my XX i travel fairly well with my wife and a Givi single big topcase and big soft tank bag.... for about 2 weeks of mainly riding all day its ok, but space for souvenirs (wine :-) is a bit low... I'm tall so i have not many choices apart from the 'bird...
BTW, i test rode the new ST, and apart from what i said, its wonderful all around, very sporty!!!
* Here in Spain (or southern Europe) heated grips are necesary just 10 days a year. And I load my geek-devices in the hotel at night:-) Sometimes i lsiten to an MP3, but basicly i prefer the engine and wind noises...
Apart from my local newsgroup news:es.charla.moteros , i think this one is unique and very good, so i lurk quite a bit and enjoy having some lilttle talk now and then here!
enjoy m8! f r e e erixweb.iespana.es/erixweb
Daniel Bannon - 24 Jun 2005 04:41 GMT >>The new Triumph ST is a serious contender, but its not as comfy for you our >>your babe (heat, height) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >half assed Givi bags and kludge your own heated grips and electric >accesory plug. Can't argue with the "factory" part.
I wouldn't be caught dead on a 'Bird sporting Givi bags. God knows how it handles. Screw with a bike's airflow at your peril.
My Corbin bags are pretty sharp, though, if I do say so. Thousand bucks extra, however.
I saw Sumner has heated grips on his CBR. Somehow that seems a bit incongruous, a mongo sport middleweight with heated grips, but they're something one must experience to really appreciate. I went with heated gloves instead, assuming correctly I'd always have my Gerbing heated vest were it cold enough to require heated grips.
Honda should offer hard bags for the Bird, if they insist on keeping it around. But that might bite into ST sales. Can't have that. Not even sure the 'Bird's sold anymore: they skipped a year recently, as I recall, and unless it goes the way of the original dinosaur ST1100 or Kawi Concours, it's about due to be replaced.
>On the Blackbird: >I tend to agree with the above except that the XX is geared for the >"big and tall" and is a stretch for a 5' 9"er like myself. It's also a >Honda which means it has two strikes against it right out of the >gate-:) Thought someone said the Blackbird had weird ergos. It fit me when porky, and now (reasonably) lean, but I have average proportions (above the belt, anyway), at 5' 11". Hmm.
'----------------------------------------------------- ' Daniel Bannon ' NW WA State, U.S.A. ' 2003 ZX636B Hercusaki, 1999 CBR1100XX '-----------------------------------------------------
F r e e - 24 Jun 2005 08:43 GMT
> Honda should offer hard bags for the Bird, if they insist on keeping check this :-)) http://www.honda.co.uk/mcstatic/en/product/accessoriesPDF/2005Range/cbr1100xx.pdf
looks better then everything seen before!
Also noticed the new two-color schemes? http://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles Cool!! :-)
saddlebag@aol.com - 24 Jun 2005 12:36 GMT > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > looks better then everything seen before! Yup. Even designed bags to fit the bike. Amazing.
F r e e - 24 Jun 2005 16:47 GMT
> Yup. Even designed bags to fit the bike. Amazing. yeah, but are the same as for the VFR, sticker apart :-)
saddlebag@aol.com - 24 Jun 2005 12:33 GMT >>>The new Triumph ST is a serious contender, but its not as comfy for you our >>>your babe (heat, height) [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I wouldn't be caught dead on a 'Bird sporting Givi bags. God knows > how it handles. Screw with a bike's airflow at your peril. You needn't take the bags to the track. At roads speeds I highly doubt this would be big a concern. The only time I notice the bags on the Duc is if I grind the exhaust. The exhausts mount to lower brackets when the bags are on it.
Daniel Bannon - 24 Jun 2005 04:34 GMT >the XX is a magical bike, its not outstanding in any category but its second >best in all of them (touring, two-up, sweet communting in the city, sporty >(be it straigh shots or twisties) , amateur level track capable) and it has >an engine and a reliability thats puts it still in the top 5 after all the >years (year after year its in the top 5 of the Bike of the year polls in GB, >Germany, Spain, ....) ....
Well put!
>The new Triumph ST is a serious contender, but its not as comfy for you our >your babe (heat, height) That's interesting. You've ridden one? I have not.
'----------------------------------------------------- ' Daniel Bannon ' NW WA State, U.S.A. ' 2003 ZX636B Hercusaki, 1999 CBR1100XX '-----------------------------------------------------
Keith Winter - 26 Jun 2005 07:32 GMT I'm kind of late coming into this discussion, but I do have a few opinions I can express re the XX.
I traded my 2000 Triumph Sprint RS in on an 2003 XX in November of 2003 for a number of reasons that are not germaine to the subject of this thread. I put 37,000 miles on the Sprint before trading it off and now have 16,000 miles on the XX, so I think I can speak from experience when comparing the two bikes. I find that, for my types of riding, the XX is much better than the Sprint.
First, for two up riding, the XX seems to suit my wife and myself much better than the Sprint. This sort of thing can be subjective, of course, buy my wife is much more comfortable on the XX than she ever was on the Sprint. I find the extra horsepower of the XX over the Sprint to be nice, especially up here in the high Sierra Nevada mountains. 140HP vs. 96HP is a noticable difference, to be sure.
The rake and trail and wheel base of the XX are identical to the Sprint, so handling is certainly comparable. The XX is about 30lbs heavier, and much of the weight is carried higher (possibly due to the gas tank being metal instead of plastic), so it's a bit top heavy; I haven't found this to be much of a problem. Even so, I have not found the XX to be any different from the Sprint in the twisties. It does seem bigger and heavier, I can't deny that, but that isn't much, if any, detriment, either. It does wear out tires faster than the Sprint; oddly, it seems to wear the front tire faster than the rear (it's the first bike I've ever owned that did that). A set of tires lasts around 6500 on the XX, whereas the same tires lasted around 8000 on the Sprint.
Factory bags, of course, are non-existant, and Givis are ugyly as hell IMHO, so bags are an issue. I like the Corbins on the XX, I just wish they weren't so expensive. $1000 seems like a lot of money for bags, but then, that's somewhat typical of factory bags from a lot of manufacturers, if they aren't included with the bike.
As for heated grips, I have the Honda factory ST1100 grips installed on the XX. They are not, as one poster said, "half assed"; they are a clean installation (no odd connections or ugly kludges required), with a four heat setting electronic controller that fits very nicely in the fairing and which is very easy to reach and see, with an LED bar graph that clearly shows the current heat setting level, even in bright sunlight. I find them to be much nicer than the simple high/low Triumph factory heated grips I had on the Sprint.
All-in-all, I agree with what a previous poster said: the XX is a magical bike, and I don't regret for a moment trading the Sprint for it. I'm sorry Honda discontinued the XX in the USA in 2003, but I hear they are bringing it back as a 1300 in the fall, for the 2006 model year. The CBR1300XX has been available for a while in Europe, I hear, so maybe that's what will be coming to our shores this Fall. Or, there is the other rumor that the new CBR1300XX will be a V5, 190HP beast. :-O Time will tell.
That's my $0.02 and worth every penny you paid for it. :-)
-Keith '03 Blackbird
F r e e - 26 Jun 2005 17:47 GMT
> All-in-all, I agree with what a previous poster said: the XX is a magical > bike, and I don't regret for a moment trading the Sprint for it. I'm [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > other rumor that the new CBR1300XX will be a V5, 190HP beast. :-O Time > will tell. i agree with your comments, but a 1300 XX does not exist, anywhere... a shame :-) And no rumors about how the next gen XX will be are serious so far...=8)
have a nice ride m8! f r e e
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