Let the games begin!!
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Troy the Troll - 25 Sep 2005 03:21 GMT So....about 2 or three weeks ago I jokingly mentioned to a buddy that I would sell him my trackbike, except he already had one. So he decided, on a spur of the moment, to sell his trackbike, and if he sold it, he told me to park mine, because he wanted it. Cash or trade, the details to be worked out later.
So...today he dropped his F3 trackbike off in Chicago, its a done deal, so the 750 is pretty much accounted for, one way or another.
So the question is, whats next? Some of the regulars might remember when I sold my KLR, and asked this same question about the 929. The best answer was, get an sv650. I ended up with pretty much that exact combination after a swap or sale, the sv650 and a gsxr750 trackbike.
So now that the 650 has "volunteered" to be a trackbike, at least through 2007, what should it be mated with? I listed some possibilities in an earlier thread on a different topic, but I figured its been a slow day so why not make the question official.
The 650 has become a primary trackbike, with a license plate, so it can be counted on for lightweight street duty, say, commuting when the tires are roasted, the occasional spare if Saddle ever comes out and needs a track ride, etc etc. At some point in time, its possible it will lose its street pretensions altogether and I'll pull all the street stuff off, mount a small upper race fairing and just leave it that way, while taking it to smaller tracks rather than larger ones.
So if its the trackbike, what for a streetbike? As I see it, there are three categories, most of them major streetbikes with minors in other niche areas of riding. Those 3 niche areas from my point of view are sometimes-big trackish, offroad, and touring. Examples of sometimes big trackish would be a used ZX-12R, an older ZX-9 Ninja, Interceptor, SuperHawk, SV1000, FZ1, Multistrada, something along those lines. Off roady would be that dirt bike looking beemer, Mike says to include the new Buell, a KTM 950 Adventurer, VStrom, etc etc. Touring would be an ST1100, Concours, R1100S.
Of course, some of these choices, and this isn't an entire list, just a "top of the head" list while sitting here, would do multiple duties, like you could argue the VStrom would qualify as light offroad as well as touring with the right accessories. A Beemer R1100S would work as an occasional bigtrack bike as well as a touring machine, depending on seating position.
I am going to rule out anything too sporty, on the grounds that I don't like the seating position of sport bikes anyway, so the ZX12R would get dinged by this criteria unless I did some seating position modification, which it could be argued I could do to a Gixxer1000 as well. But I include the big Kawasaki's because they were always of a reasonable seating position, made good multi state touring bikes when I was younger, so a ZX-11 would work, but a ZX10R wouldn't.
I have only light predispositions at this point, and my usual ones, I tend away from any other than the 4 main japanese manufacturers but I would consider the occasional Beemer, Triumph Tiger, Ducati Multistrada, Mike says I must include the Ulyssess, the price should be in the $10G or less range, sure I could spend $15G's for a brand new Adventurer but I don't want to, so used or new, lets try and keep it under $10G's.
It doesn't have to JUST commute, or JUST trackride, or JUST offroad, or JUST tour, I do like variety in my rides, and as the regulars can tell, there is a good chance I'll just be doing this all over again in another year or three. I'm kinda like Larry the lawyer, except I keep mine around a bit longer.
_Bob_Nixon - 25 Sep 2005 03:45 GMT [...]
>It doesn't have to JUST commute, or JUST trackride, or JUST offroad, or JUST >tour, I do like variety in my rides, and as the regulars can tell, there is >a good chance I'll just be doing this all over again in another year or >three. I'm kinda like Larry the lawyer, except I keep mine around a bit >longer. Simple choice! GSXR1000K3 thru K4 7.5-8 grand on the used market and with a few mods ( convertabars, lower pegs, ohlins later) you might become a street riding 3rd gear wonder -:)
PS. I'd suggest a new Sprint with ABS but I know you'd never go for it. Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ 01 Sprint ST "RED" 50K miles http://bigrex.net/pictures
wheelieking - 25 Sep 2005 03:59 GMT Try the Michelon Pilot Powers, 100% pure synthetic rubber doesn't roast... nearly as much...
 Signature Phil 04 R1 27,800 miles
> [...] > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > 01 Sprint ST "RED" 50K miles > http://bigrex.net/pictures Troy the Troll - 25 Sep 2005 04:30 GMT > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > with a few mods ( convertabars, lower pegs, ohlins later) you might > become a street riding 3rd gear wonder -:) Nah....I just can't see myself doing much with a full on sportbike that doesn't have a hint of GT to it. Yeah, it can be modified, and yeah, its the best street engine I've ever sampled, and it would be a nice occasional big track bike, but its got more than anyone ever uses on the street, and seems like such a waste without using it at Road America.
> PS. I'd suggest a new Sprint with ABS but I know you'd never go for > it. I don't mind a tank like yours, that has the flavor of GT I'm looking for in a sportbike, kinda ZX-11, Blackbird, ZZR1200. It fits in there, and people aren't coming in here talking about broken engine mounting bolts, locking front wheels and other weird reliability issues. Does a lightly used one make it under the $10G line? Or a new one?
Robert Striemer - 25 Sep 2005 05:45 GMT NEW (street thumpers) non BIG-4. Not a good choice for touring although I believe there is factory luggage available for the HUsky. Otherwise, either of the following might offer most of the variety your looking for. Haven't riden either but am leaning towards a KTM myself. Roughly the same power but a little less weight than the sv650.
1) 2006 KTM 625 SMC (625 cc; 322 lbs dry) street $8,598 (Supermoto LC4 2006 price) some links: http://www.ktmusa.com/frameset.asp
http://www.ktmcyclehutt.com/ktm_new_bike_prices.htm
and
2) Husqvarna SM 610 (576 cc's with a dry weight of 313 lbs) http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=2447227&fSectionId=918&fSetId=381
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/mcy/98676598.html
Rob
>> [...] >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > locking front wheels and other weird reliability issues. Does a lightly > used one make it under the $10G line? Or a new one? _Bob_Nixon - 25 Sep 2005 18:23 GMT >> [...] >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >front wheels and other weird reliability issues. Does a lightly used one >make it under the $10G line? Or a new one? Used Sprint's go for 4-6K 99-03. The new one with all the trimming will be around $12.5 or > Reliable as a VFR or ST1100.
Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ 01 Sprint ST "RED" 50K miles http://bigrex.net/pictures
Stephan Rose - 26 Sep 2005 15:22 GMT >PS. I'd suggest a new Sprint with ABS but I know you'd never go for >it. Nice way to suggest something without suggesting it =)
-- Stephan 2001 Yamaha YZF-R6 <--- Stolen
NOSPAM*@yahoo.com - 25 Sep 2005 04:17 GMT Why don't you test ride a few different bikes and see what you think. I am sure you are aware I play drums. Cymbals are a very important part of the drum set. The salesman tells me what cymbals sound good. I don't take his word for it as I try them myself. Sure he could be a professional drummer but, not everybody has the exact same taste in cymbals. Also, I may try 30 cymbals before I buy only one. I rememeber going to a music store and trying out every single cymbal they had on the floor both new and used. Take this same approach to buying a bike and you will have it for life. I will suggest you take out the new Buell for a test. I would hope you would try out all the other bikes you have listed as well. This way after you buy the Buell you won't wonder to yourself I wonder if I would have liked the Duc or the DL better.:-) Glad to see you mentioned the Buell this time around. How many years have I been pushing them on you?:-) You can't get a Uly for under ten grand but, you can get the new longer roomier version of the Lightning for under nine grand. I think that is what Steve said they were going for. They don't take a step ladder to get on them either and basically it is a Uly without all the gadgets and long travel suspension.
>So....about 2 or three weeks ago I jokingly mentioned to a buddy that I >would sell him my trackbike, except he already had one. So he decided, on a [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] >three. I'm kinda like Larry the lawyer, except I keep mine around a bit >longer. Regards
Mike
Troy the Troll - 25 Sep 2005 04:37 GMT > Why don't you test ride a few different bikes and see what you think. Mike! You stud! This of course isn't a bad idea, but around here dealers don't just throw you the keys and wave goodbye as you motor out the door. When I bought the sv, they wouldn't let me test ride until I was ready to sign the paperwork. And while you claim that all Buell dealers let you ride everything, thats not been my experience.
>Take this same approach to buying a bike > and you will have it for life. Doubt it. I get bored easy. The KLR650 and SV650 are two of the best, all round, do everything, completely happy with them kinda bikes I've ever owned, and given time I'll get rid of them as well. I ain't Larry and his Honda.....I keep good ones around awhile, excellent ones around longer, but I ain't married to any of them.
The sv will be around awhile, its earned it just like the KLR did. Good, all round, practical as all get out streetbikes with just a hint of something else thrown in which keeps your attention for years. Sportbikes just tend to be efficient ways to dispatch twisty pavement, good all round bikes are worth hanging on to for the better part of a decade.
> I will suggest you take out the new > Buell for a test. yeah, well, if the local dealers have something sitting around and don't require my first born as collateral.
>Glad to see you mentioned the Buell this time around. How > many years have I been pushing them on you?:-) You can't get a Uly for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and basically it is a Uly without all the gadgets and long travel > suspension. Yeah, but what if what I want is a long travel suspension? The VStrom makes a decent sportbike impression in the canyons, plus its comfortable, decent range, uglier than sin but I hardly have considered many japanese bikes good looking, ala 916.
Steve Mackay - 25 Sep 2005 18:45 GMT >> Why don't you test ride a few different bikes and see what you think. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > sign the paperwork. And while you claim that all Buell dealers let you ride > everything, thats not been my experience. http://tinyurl.com/89e5z http://tinyurl.com/dfs2s http://tinyurl.com/7gtld
If *ANY* of these dealers wont let you test ride a Buell. Email me. I know the people to complain to. IIRC they are required to allow you a test ride. It's part of the franchise contract.
>>Take this same approach to buying a bike >> and you will have it for life. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > yeah, well, if the local dealers have something sitting around and don't > require my first born as collateral. All my local dealer does is require a motorcycle endorced license. They'll supply the helmet. They'll want to watch you ride around the parking lot 1st however.
>>Glad to see you mentioned the Buell this time around. How >> many years have I been pushing them on you?:-) You can't get a Uly for [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > range, uglier than sin but I hardly have considered many japanese bikes good > looking, ala 916. On an unrelated topic, but you'll like this one. I was talking with the owner of our local HD/Buell dealership yesterday at a Breast Cancer charity ride. One of his wrenches, and Thunderbike racers is assembling a track bike for the dealership. EVERY salesperson will be required(he's making it mandatory :) ). to attend a track day on it next year. They'll be instructed by their thunderbike racer. But still, I think that's an EXCELLENT idea.
Troy the Troll - 25 Sep 2005 20:28 GMT >>> Why don't you test ride a few different bikes and see what you think. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > http://tinyurl.com/89e5z See #2 on the this list? They are the last Buell dealers who turned me down for a ride. There is a newer Hardley dealer down in the "Little California" section of town which I might try out, I think they do Buells.
> http://tinyurl.com/dfs2s > http://tinyurl.com/7gtld These links didn't work at all, so I'm not sure what they are supposed to be.
> If *ANY* of these dealers wont let you test ride a Buell. Email me. I know > the people to complain to. IIRC they are required to allow you a test > ride. It's part of the franchise contract. COOL! Let me go back to #2 on the list, them being close, and see what happens. I assume I don't need more than a motorcycle endorsement, helmet, not look like an idiot squidling, etc etc?
>>> I will suggest you take out the new >>> Buell for a test. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > supply the helmet. They'll want to watch you ride around the parking lot > 1st however. Fair enough. Then I can wheelie it down the street out into traffic? I can just see the look on the salesman face when I pull that one....
> On an unrelated topic, but you'll like this one. > I was talking with the owner of our local HD/Buell dealership yesterday at [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > year. They'll be instructed by their thunderbike racer. But still, I think > that's an EXCELLENT idea. Kudo's for that owner....thats the way a bike shop oughtta be run. Hell, I find a decent shop owner like that out here and I might be convinced to BUY one of the silly things just to put my dollars where his shop performance is.
Larry xlax Lovisone - 25 Sep 2005 05:02 GMT > So if its the trackbike, what for a streetbike? Honda Pacific Coast... http://www.tappedin.com/hop/html/pc.htm $2,838.00 Ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-PC800-PC-800-PACIFIC-COAST-NO-RESERVE-NICE- BIKE_W0QQitemZ4577408465QQcategoryZ6708QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Articles... http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mchonda/pc800.html http://www.motorbyte.com/mmm/pages/reviews/pacific8_98.htm
Larry L 94 RC45 #2 Have a wheelie NICE day... Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life... If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust... V4'S are music to the seat of my pants... 1952 De Havilland Chipmunk... Yank and bank your brains loose... http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/ http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/ http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2 http://www.reeky.org/gallery/xlax
Troy the Troll - 25 Sep 2005 06:10 GMT >> So if its the trackbike, what for a streetbike? > > Honda Pacific Coast... > http://www.tappedin.com/hop/html/pc.htm > $2,838.00 Ebay I've actually watched Pacific Coasts for quite some time, they have a following. I'm not sure how much I go for the "cover everything in plastic and pretend its a big scooter" styling, but I've ridden uglier machines.
I found a guy who rode one all over Alaska before I went last year, they don't ever sell all that cheap though, people keep an eye out for them, usually keep the prices higher than I think the bike itself is worth.
Larry xlax Lovisone - 25 Sep 2005 07:55 GMT > I've actually watched Pacific Coasts for quite some time, they have a > following. I'm not sure how much I go for the "cover everything in plastic and > pretend its a big scooter" styling, but I've ridden uglier machines. Me too... but they sure do ride nice...
> I found a guy who rode one all over Alaska before I went last year, they don't > ever sell all that cheap though, people keep an eye out for them, usually keep > the prices higher than I think the bike itself is worth. How about $1030.00 then??? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-Honda-Pacific-Coast-800-PC800_W0QQitemZ45772 53803QQcategoryZ10066QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Larry L 94 RC45 #2 Have a wheelie NICE day... Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life... If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust... V4'S are music to the seat of my pants... 1952 De Havilland Chipmunk... Yank and bank your brains loose... http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/ http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/ http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2 http://www.reeky.org/gallery/xlax
NOSPAM*@yahoo.com - 25 Sep 2005 13:36 GMT >> I've actually watched Pacific Coasts for quite some time, they have a >> following. I'm not sure how much I go for the "cover everything in plastic and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >How about $1030.00 then??? >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-Honda-Pacific-Coast-800-PC800_W0QQitemZ45772 53803QQcategoryZ10066QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Troy don't settle for this Hoover Vacuum cleaner look a like. You only live once. Go get your dream Bue I mean bike.:-)
>Larry L >94 RC45 #2 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2 >http://www.reeky.org/gallery/xlax Regards
Mike
Troy the Troll - 25 Sep 2005 16:12 GMT >> I found a guy who rode one all over Alaska before I went last year, they >> don't [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > How about $1030.00 then??? > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-Honda-Pacific-Coast-800-PC800_W0QQitemZ45772 53803QQcategoryZ10066QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem I can guarantee it won't stay at $1000 larry.
PC Paul - 26 Sep 2005 17:21 GMT >>I've actually watched Pacific Coasts for quite some time, they have a >>following. I'm not sure how much I go for the "cover everything in plastic and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2 > http://www.reeky.org/gallery/xlax It's up to $1,777.77 at the moment.
 Signature PC Paul 89 PC800 77 R100RS
Trip pics at: http://photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart
"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society" - Theodore Roosevelt
Tweak - 25 Sep 2005 18:09 GMT > >> So if its the trackbike, what for a streetbike? > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > following. I'm not sure how much I go for the "cover everything in plastic > and pretend its a big scooter" styling, but I've ridden uglier machines. I looked at some before I bought the ST1100, which looks (to me) like a bigger version of the PC800. Sure is easy to keep clean.
 Signature Tweak
PC Paul - 26 Sep 2005 16:58 GMT >>>So if its the trackbike, what for a streetbike? >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > don't ever sell all that cheap though, people keep an eye out for them, > usually keep the prices higher than I think the bike itself is worth. I bought my PC new in 1989. I tried to get a personalized license plate "VESPA GT", but someone beat me to it. :-(
 Signature PC Paul 89 PC800 77 R100RS
Trip pics at: http://photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart
"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society" - Theodore Roosevelt
saddlebag@aol.com - 25 Sep 2005 09:11 GMT > So....about 2 or three weeks ago I jokingly mentioned to a buddy that I > would sell him my trackbike, except he already had one. So he decided, on a [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > consider the occasional Beemer, Triumph Tiger, Ducati Multistrada, Mike says > I must include the Ulyssess, You were tippie toeing on my little ST4. The Uly sits about a foot higher. I think you can scratch that one from your list.
Peckham - 25 Sep 2005 16:16 GMT > You were tippie toeing on my little ST4. The Uly sits about a foot higher. > I think you can scratch that one from your list. You can always get the lowered seat, so that you have the feeling of riding around with a heat gun stuck aimed at your groin...
There are things I like about the bike, but I'd only buy one if it were cheap (it is not), or if it were just a silly thing I rode on occasion in adddition to my regular mount.
A buddy of mine just test road one. He said it was not a bad package, save the heat factor. He said it was hard to wheelie (this coming from a guy that could wheelie a CB125), and that it needed some better wind protection. The model he tested was $16K OTD. f.ck that!
Steve Mackay - 25 Sep 2005 18:34 GMT >> You were tippie toeing on my little ST4. The Uly sits about a foot higher. >> I think you can scratch that one from your list. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > that could wheelie a CB125), and that it needed some better wind protection. > The model he tested was $16K OTD. f.ck that! You're not talking about the Uly are you? Considering it's $11.5K. And it's NOT hard to wheelie whatsoever, as is any buell. Blip the throttle real good in 1st, and the front wheel will come up pretty easily. Hard 1st to 2nd shifts, the front end comes up whether you like it or not.
Troy the Troll - 25 Sep 2005 16:35 GMT >> I have only light predispositions at this point, and my usual ones, I >> tend [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You were tippie toeing on my little ST4. The Uly sits about a foot higher. > I think you can scratch that one from your list. Using my massive ground hugging weight, I haven't found a motorcycle yet who's height scared me off. What would scare me off with the Ulyssess is just the usual "Look at me I'm a Buell" issues....some of which don't matter as much as normal, since the next bike is more likely to be regular and run of the mill, which Buell does about as well as everyone else.
Bryan - 25 Sep 2005 15:31 GMT > I have only light predispositions at this point, and my usual ones, I tend > away from any other than the 4 main japanese manufacturers but I would > consider the occasional Beemer, Triumph Tiger, Ducati Multistrada, Mike > says No Aprilia? They seem to have bikes that fit into your broad catagories. Too bad you don't live Europe, the Japanese offer many models we don't get to see here in the states. Honda offers a big v-twin kind of like the v-strom, but I can't remember what it is called.
Well you'll have all winter to look.
Bryan
Troy the Troll - 25 Sep 2005 16:37 GMT >> I have only light predispositions at this point, and my usual ones, I >> tend away from any other than the 4 main japanese manufacturers but I >> would consider the occasional Beemer, Triumph Tiger, Ducati Multistrada, >> Mike says > > No Aprilia? They seem to have bikes that fit into your broad catagories. TUONO! Except its a mite on the pricey side.
> Too bad you don't live Europe, the Japanese offer many models we don't get > to see here in the states. Honda offers a big v-twin kind of like the > v-strom, but I can't remember what it is called. > > Well you'll have all winter to look. I do I do. But the best time to buy would be between now and Christmas probably. SuperHawks are going for $6Gs new here in Denver, I've always liked those, but its a bit of a sporty ride and that silly little gas tank when combined with poor relative fuel mileage means I can't get the range out of it I would like.
Bryan - 25 Sep 2005 17:45 GMT > TUONO! Except its a mite on the pricey side. Yep, true. But compared to Harley they aren't that expensive. My local dealer had an Aprilia with fairing, hard bags and trunk for about $12k. I can't remember the model, but it caught my eye.
And those Italian bikes sure are sexy, especially compared to a big old hawg.
Bryan
Inlaw Biker - 25 Sep 2005 16:32 GMT > It doesn't have to JUST commute, or JUST trackride, or JUST offroad, or JUST > tour, I do like variety in my rides, and as the regulars can tell, there is > a good chance I'll just be doing this all over again in another year or > three. I'm kinda like Larry the lawyer, except I keep mine around a bit > longer. If what you'll do primarily is "everything" and you already have a track bike, then something more standard would make sense. My short list would be:
Daily/Touring - Vstrom 1000/650 or Multistrada. The 650 might be too much like your SV. The 1000 is very versatile, both sporty and comfortable, and you can get hard bags and a windshield. Multistrada - just like the Vstrom but with class, and much sportier. I have always been a Duc fan though.
Daily/Sporting - Speed Triple, any year. After riding Andrew's I could see riding one of these things all day. You can sport tour, commute, blast the back roads, whatever you want. It's got attitude but it's comfortable and just ... cool. It would get you outside of Japan for a change too.
You can't really find a bad bike these days, only the wrong bike for your application. You really gotta decide what you're going to do with the bike, or else you'll end up with one that's a compromise. I used to buy versatile bikes as a rule, but they ended up without personality. Bikes are supposed to be fun, so just get what turns your crank and sell it in three years. That's what I do!
Greg Sumner Seattle, WA '98 XR400-DS
Troy the Troll - 25 Sep 2005 20:36 GMT > If what you'll do primarily is "everything" and you already have a > track bike, then something more standard would make sense. My short [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > just like the Vstrom but with class, and much sportier. I have always > been a Duc fan though. I considered the DL650, but you are right, I've already got one, and I've ridden a big VStrom quite alot and I LIKE them....the Multistrada just looks like the same, performance and niche wise, as the VStrom except with some Italian panache and much better sporty wheels and running gear.
> Daily/Sporting - Speed Triple, any year. After riding Andrew's I could > see riding one of these things all day. You can sport tour, commute, > blast the back roads, whatever you want. It's got attitude but it's > comfortable and just ... cool. It would get you outside of Japan for a > change too. Didn't they just come out with a new Speed Triple? And price would be what for a new one, or lightly used one?
> You can't really find a bad bike these days, only the wrong bike for > your application. You really gotta decide what you're going to do with > the bike, or else you'll end up with one that's a compromise. I used > to buy versatile bikes as a rule, but they ended up without > personality. Bikes are supposed to be fun, so just get what turns your > crank and sell it in three years. That's what I do! I don't mind all round blandness, I don't even mind compromise if we're talking street machines here. Which is why the wide variety I'm looking at, everything from touring bikes ( Concours ) to near tracklike machines ( ZX12R ). I've already got a premo all-rounder when you consider tight track work, this next bike might be more of a do-everything type, excluding the track. And I do miss the dirtiness of the KLR, it would make a nice compliment to an sv650. The VStrom can travel longer, faster, better, a Triple might work for the same kind of riding as the VStrom with more of premium on power and rarity, I hadn't looked at them at all, I must go do some googling this afternoon.
|
|
|