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Motorcycle Forum / General / Sportbikes / August 2007Motorcycle survey, Most to least favorite by type (rep, ST & street/commute)
I don't want to start a bike war but we need ON TOPIC threads now and threads that everyone can respond to. I'll start it out with more detail than you really need or voice your opinion if you like. New Race reps. All lists, most favorite to least favorite: SuzukiGSXR1000/750/600- best all around since about 2002.3 Kawasaki- 2nd best since ZX10 & 636. Honda- CBR1000RR Much improved over the 900,929,954 & early 1000RR days, also better reps for the street than most the others. Triumph 675 Best all around 600 class bike. Yamaha-R1 least competent 1000cc I4 race rep unless you buy that $20,000 model with Ohkins etc.R6 best race 600, worst street 600 rep. CBR600RR Buell 1125 Most Promising potential. Pliller Mille (do they still sell in USA?) Ducati all models: overpriced and high maintenance. MV Agusta 1000. Way too expensive for a run of the mill race rep. New ST or Sport Tourers: VFR 781. Dated but still the best handler with a good rep and decent mileage. Not a good two up ST bike due to the small engine. Sprint ST 1050. Fastest and second most sporty. Not comfy for short people. FJR 1300, Porky but nearly as fast as the Sprint ST. ST-1300 New Guzzi ST Yamaha YZF600R Honda F4i (new one with bench seat) Duc ST3: Great reviews but wimpiest engine and like all Ducs is endowed with belt driven cam drives. High maintenance. New Street Bikes: This is a class of bikes that I'm biased against even though I currently own one due to cheaped down gear and lack of wind protection. SV-650 need I say more? Kwak 650 twin has potential. Honda 919, 600 Hornet's Naked Guzzi's (best value in Euro bikes + good reliability and comfortYamaha Kwak 1000/750 FZ6, FZ1 SV-1000 Priller Tuano (Naked Mille$$) Harley powered Buells All Duc Monsters & nostalgia reps. MV Brutal (way too $$ for any bike, muchless a semi naked street ride) Those overgrown Motards like the DUKE 990. Don't know enough about them to voice an opinion. However they do seems like a rich kid's toy, with little practical value. Dirt Bikes: Same as above but they're affordable and do fill a nice nicth market but seems except the new twins have changed little over the years, except they're all bigger four stroke singles now. I know I missed a bunch but it's a start.  SignatureBob Nixon, RZ-350, Chandler, AZ. > I don't want to start a bike war but we need ON TOPIC threads now and > threads that everyone can respond to. I'll start it out with more detail [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > also better reps for the street than most the others. > Triumph 675 Best all around 600 class bike. I still wanna score a ride on one some day soon. The 600 race reps don't do anything for me whatsoever. Unpractical for every day riding IMHO. > Yamaha-R1 least competent 1000cc I4 race rep unless you buy that $20,000 > model with Ohkins etc.R6 best race 600, worst street 600 rep. > CBR600RR > Buell 1125 Most Promising potential. You should see some writeups coming around December in the major mags on the 1125R. They are still doing some tweaking. > Pliller Mille (do they still sell in USA?) > Ducati all models: overpriced and high maintenance. But even according to my Buell engineer buddies... The 1098 have some of the best brakes out there. Pretty much overkill for the street though. But faster lap times can be had on the older 999R. Have you noticed you never see the dyno sheets on a STOCK 1098? They always have like $2K worth of exhaust and ECM work. That's to get ride of the huge midrange dip they have. > MV Agusta 1000. Way too expensive for a run of the mill race rep. But a DAMN sexy bike nonetheless. > New ST or Sport Tourers: > VFR 781. Dated but still the best handler with a good rep and decent [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > All Duc Monsters & nostalgia reps. > MV Brutal (way too $$ for any bike, muchless a semi naked street ride) You forgot the KTM superduke... Which is supposed to be one of the best "nakeds" out there... > Those overgrown Motards like the DUKE 990. Don't know enough about them to > voice an opinion. However they do seems like a rich kid's toy, with little > practical value. The overgrown motards have their place as actually being GREAT urban commuters. The extra suspension travel on the Duc hypermotard and Buell Super TT make the ride quite comfy, but still handle as good as any sportbike, and even better when the road starts getting rough. That's why I built my Buell 'sport touring' bike out of the Super TT. > Dirt Bikes: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I know I missed a bunch but it's a start. Nice list Bob... > Honda 919, 600 Hornet's I've had my 919 for about four years now, and I've done nothing to it but grips and frame savers. It's my sole transport, and I couldn't be happier with it. I may swap it for a Triumph one day, but I'm in no hurry. It could weigh less, but already has more power then I use. Reassembler > I don't want to start a bike war but we need ON TOPIC threads now and > threads that everyone can respond to. I'll start it out with more detail > than you really need or voice your opinion if you like. > > New Race reps. All lists, most favorite to least favorite: Would be the Duc 1098 for me. > New ST or Sport Tourers: Busa. > New Street Bikes: SV-650 > Those overgrown Motards like the DUKE 990. Don't know enough about them to > voice an opinion. However they do seems like a rich kid's toy, with little > practical value. Rode a 990 Supermoto the other day. License suspension looking for an opportunity to happen. Insane. > Dirt Bikes: DR-Z400, with a set of SM wheels. 2 bikes for the price of 1. SignatureTweak I'm just a bike whore, I love them all... SignatureHeaven is where the police are British, the chefs Italian, the mechanics German, the lovers French and it is all organized by the Swiss. Hell is where the police are German, the chefs British, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss and it is all organized by Italians. http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/ > I don't want to start a bike war but we need ON TOPIC threads now and > threads that everyone can respond to. I'll start it out with more detail > than you really need or voice your opinion if you like. > > Kwak 650 twin has potential. I like the new 650 Versys (dumbass name not withstanding). It has a good price point, and you can get factory hard luggage. I saw the Bandit 1200 in the shop the other day, it seemed interesting, the old ones bored me. The Ducati GT1000 is also very high on my "I want one" list. Duc Hypermotard for me. SignatureAndrew 00 Daytona 00 Speed Triple 71 Kawi H1 05 Infant > Duc Hypermotard for me. No Ducs for me (too $$ and high maint for regular folks). but I did fotget about the new Concouse 1400, speed triple and Busa buts it's so damned ugly;) A 1400 with a BUSA engine, maybe;) SignatureBob Nixon, RZ-350, Chandler, AZ. (snip) Standard Street bikes: Well, of course, my favorite is the Ducati Monster S4Rs Testastretta 998. Fastest street bike I've ever owned. Best sounding. Best braking. Best handling. Narrow, light, flickable, soulful, eye- catching, torquey; I have never once ridden this bike and failed to dismount with a huge sh.t-eating grin. What more can you ask for out of a street bike? (Other than weather protection, carrying capacity, a nice radio, and ) .... oh well, that's why I own more than one bike! Others that would be fun ... the new Triumph Street Triple 675, the Aprilia Tuono, the Suzuki SV1000 (non-'S' model), MV Augusta 910 Brutale, Aprila SXV550. Least favorites - any four cylinder, transverse-engined bike, any naked cruiser bike. Touring bikes: Of course, the Harley FLH touring bikes (Electra Glide, Street Glide, and Road Kings) are the best long distance bikes in the world. More features, more comfort, more support, more dealers, more riders, more colors, more aftermarket farkles, more value retention, and they keep getting better year after year after year. My Street Glide is admittedly an extreme example of a personalized Harley, but it is typical of what you can do with one to make it your own. It's fast, good handling, quiet, comfortable, offers great weather protection, huge carrying capacity, has great brakes, and has been 100% totally reliable. Other choices for me would be limited to the Honda GoldWing GL1800 or a 1973 Moto-Guzzi Eldorado 850, thoughtfully updated, of course. Least favorite would have to be any/all of the big four-cylinder BMW models and that brand new Victory Vision. Ick! Race replicas: I don't like any race replicas for the street, since for me, they are very uncomfortable, put a lot of weight on my wrists, the riding position makes vision to the rear difficult, and I can't use them the way they were meant to be used. So I'll rank them on my racetrack preference and only rank the ones I have personal experience with. Ducati air-cooled 2-valve supersports, 620/750/800/900/1000SS. Much more bike than the average street rider can ride to its limits. Inexpensive, inexhaustably available, sound and look great, cheap as hell to buy, cheaper still to wrench on and maintain. The higher end models with Ohlins suspension and Brembo's best brakes are the best, but Penske shocks and Traxxion Dynamics fork upgrades can pretty much even things out. Worst feature - intrusion of the hump-backed gas tank into the rider's chest. Ducati liquid-cooled 4v superbikes. Harder hitting, better brakes, but still tractable and fun, without having to work your a.s off. Also built in vast numbers and very inexpensively available now; a 996 or 998 for the price of a Japanes 600 4-cylinder is a much more fun track bike for me, with its readily available and useful torque. Worst feature - cost of repairs if you trash it. Suzuki GSXR 1000 - much easier to ride and much better all around track bike than I would've believed possible before I rode one on the track. Worst feature - spins the tire up way too easily coming out of corners. MZ Skorpion Cup Replika - incredible handling, light weight, great sound, decent brakes. Modest power; when you power them up, they become fragile. Triumph liquid cooled fuel injected 4v triples - great sound, great blend of twin-like torque and four-like top end. Great brakes. Great suspension, stock. Worst feature - too much weight. New ST or Sport Tourers: Least desirable bikes on the market for my needs and preferences. I always thought I was the perfect candidate for a sport tourng bike until I owned an ST1100 and rode some of the others (Ducati ST2, ST4S, Kawasaki Concours, FJR1300) and discovered that they are all compromised in areas and ways that make me dislike them hugely. Too heavy to be sportbikes, to hardcore sporty in riding position to be everyday roustabouts, and not nearly comfortable enough or feature laden for me to enjoy long distance touring on them. For me they are the wrong answer to the wrong question: what bike would you have if you could only have one street bike? > (snip) > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > huge carrying capacity, has great brakes, and has been 100% totally > reliable. I figured this one would be a favorite long haul bike. Smooth and all the comforts of home. > Other choices for me would be limited to the Honda GoldWing GL1800 or > a 1973 Moto-Guzzi Eldorado 850, thoughtfully updated, of course. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > way they were meant to be used. So I'll rank them on my racetrack > preference and only rank the ones I have personal experience with. That's what they're made for. Why folks but them in droves is beyond me. > Ducati air-cooled 2-valve supersports, 620/750/800/900/1000SS. Much > more bike than the average street rider can ride to its limits. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > even things out. Worst feature - intrusion of the hump-backed gas tank > into the rider's chest. Like Harley, it's my understanding that the Duc engines are just a few designs with slightly different tuning. The smaller 620,750 are very similar to the old air cooled designs. The liquid cooled four valve engine all similar too, except the GP V4. All use desmo & rubber belt cam drive. > Ducati liquid-cooled 4v superbikes. Harder hitting, better brakes, > but still tractable and fun, without having to work your a.s off. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > track. Worst feature - spins the tire up way too easily coming out of > corners. That's 'cause they have torque down to three K and no Traction control yet also no bang bang firing order. > MZ Skorpion Cup Replika - incredible handling, light weight, great > sound, decent brakes. Modest power; when you power them up, they [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > blend of twin-like torque and four-like top end. Great brakes. Great > suspension, stock. Worst feature - too much weight. That's 12 valve or 4 per cylinder. > New ST or Sport Tourers: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the wrong answer to the wrong question: what bike would you have if > you could only have one street bike? Heh Tim, this is just about opinions and you've made some good ones. SignatureBob Nixon, RZ-350, Chandler, AZ. > Heh Tim, this is just about opinions and you've made some good ones. I don't think very many people can ride for 29 years and NOT form some pretty strong opinions about motorcycles! I certainly have figured out what works for me and what doesn't. At this point, some of the fun is in the things that surprise me... for instance, that I would ride that Gixxer 1000 on the track and like it as much as I did... I honestly expected to both dislike it and be terrified by it, and the actual experience was so different! > I'll start it out with more detail > than you really need or voice your opinion if you like. > > New Race reps. All lists, most favorite to least favorite: I keep eyeing up Aprilia Tuono R's with this weird feeling....like spending a boatload of money on something really cool and totally useless. Maybe once the 650 goes completely to trackbikedom? >I don't want to start a bike war but we need ON TOPIC threads now and >threads that everyone can respond to. I'll start it out with more detail [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Ducati all models: overpriced and high maintenance. >MV Agusta 1000. Way too expensive for a run of the mill race rep. Torture racks for me would be that new Buell and the cool 675 Triumph. The Triump is the only race rep were I actually like the styling. Well I shouldn't say only the Ducs are beautiful unfortunately as you said overpriced and high maintainance. Sounds like a couple of women I dated.:-) >New ST or Sport Tourers: >VFR 781. Dated but still the best handler with a good rep and decent [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Duc ST3: Great reviews but wimpiest engine and like all Ducs is endowed with >belt driven cam drives. High maintenance. Give me the Sprint. >New Street Bikes: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >SV-650 need I say more? >Kwak 650 twin has potential. These two bikes are nice and practicle. >Honda 919, 600 Hornet's I always liked the 919 >Naked Guzzi's (best value in Euro bikes + good reliability and comfortYamaha I like guzzis but they have always been on the heavy and slow side. >SV-1000 Can't understand why the SV is not a hit. >Harley powered Buells Great bikes they are. >All Duc Monsters & nostalgia reps. Like the retro Ducs a lot. >MV Brutal (way too $$ for any bike, muchless a semi naked street ride) Why did you not list the Speed triple? That is the coolest naked bike out there. Give me one in black please. >Those overgrown Motards like the DUKE 990. Don't know enough about them to >voice an opinion. However they do seems like a rich kid's toy, with little >practical value. In my book the best motards are perhaps the Husky 510 or the Suzuki DRZ 400 sm. Love the Suzuki in black. >Dirt Bikes: Yamaha rules in MX. The YZ 250 F is the perfect dirt bike. Of course everybody is building wonderful MXers these days. >Same as above but they're affordable and do fill a nice nicth market but >seems except the new twins have changed little over the years, except >they're all bigger four stroke singles now. > >I know I missed a bunch but it's a start. Hows about you do this same sort of thing but list vintage bikes instead. Regards Mike RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!This guy is the real deal here folks. http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/ Help secure our borders. https://secure.responseenterprises.com/minutemanhq/?a=856 > I don't want to start a bike war but we need ON TOPIC threads now and > threads that everyone can respond to. You probably listed all possible bikes. And all categories but one: do_it_all. Specifically I mean category for following riding yearly profile: -8-12k miles (from string to the end of fall - Chicago climate) -1-3 track days to learn and keep up with good skills -1 long solo trip (3-5k range) -2-3 short (.5-1k miles) weekend get aways trips with my wife -daily commuting to work (60 miles per day) -daily trips to the gym, friends .... So far FZ-1 + 40l Givi top case is serving the purpose. The big guest complain is the wind protection - have just replaced stock windshield with ZG ST one. It is quite good but far from perfect. I would appreciate comments. Andy > > I don't want to start a bike war but we need ON TOPIC threads now and > > threads that everyone can respond to. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Andy I suppose if I were limited to one bike (ick) I would choose the Ducati Multistrada 1100S, with top case, accessory taller windscreen, heated grips and seat, in yellow, of course, with Termi header pipes and ARC fabrication reverse cone megaphones with baffles. I'd install a Scala Rider wireless bluetooth cell phone/FM radio, and somehow wire in a portable XM radio for those long cross-country trips (gotta have Bluesville and XCountry). I could live with that combo, but I sure wouldn't be as happy as I am with the multibike arrangement I've got now. > I suppose if I were limited to one bike (ick) I would choose the > Ducati Multistrada 1100S. I could live with that combo, but I sure > wouldn't be as happy as I am with the multibike arrangement I've got > now. I think I decided quite some time ago that at the end of the day, 2 bikes are needed to cover all the bases. One just ain't enough. >> I suppose if I were limited to one bike (ick) I would choose the >> Ducati Multistrada 1100S. I could live with that combo, but I sure [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I think I decided quite some time ago that at the end of the day, 2 > bikes are needed to cover all the bases. One just ain't enough. You made the decision that two bikes are necessary, but having observer your recent experiments with Buell, V-Strom, 1100 and whatever you get next I doubt you finally figured out that the bikes are. This is the big question. Ok it SV-650. But have you settle down as far as the second bike goes? >> I think I decided quite some time ago that at the end of the day, 2 >> bikes are needed to cover all the bases. One just ain't enough. > > You made the decision that two bikes are necessary, but having observer > your recent experiments with Buell, V-Strom, 1100 and whatever you get > next I doubt you finally figured out that the bikes are. Quite possibly true. The VStrom and 1100 just eliminated the touring end of the segment, I have yet to run through the dualsport end of the spectrum. The 929 and 650 were a good combination, but too street/sporty oriented. > This is the big question. Ok it SV-650. But have you settle down as far as > the second bike goes? The 650 is one of only two motorcycles I have ever owned which I would consider buying another one of the same model and generation. I would also consider the newer generation with the fuel injection as well. I will, for now, allow it to define 1 of the 2 bikes necessary for motorcycle harmony. The other motorcycle which I would consider owning again, same generation, is the KLR650. That would fill in enough dualsport for me to try out that end of the spectrum again. Might go do just that. > I suppose if I were limited to one bike (ick) I would choose the > Ducati Multistrada 1100S, with top case, accessory taller windscreen, > heated grips and seat, in yellow, yellow - I have whole yellow Aerostich :-). Sounds interesting. But seriously - this is $12+K option. FZ-1 with all additions would be around $8K. Asking as a newbie with only FZ-1 experience - what it is missing when compared with the Multistrada 1100S? > I could live with that combo, but I sure > wouldn't be as happy as I am with the multibike arrangement I've got > now. In short - what would be two bike arrangement for above profile. to make it more difficult, lets add tiny bit of some off-road requirements. One more question: OP did not mention BMW in his list. Would one of its models pay the bill? Last question: I have an opportunity to acquire the small 2004 4k miles 250 Ninja for $1300-1500 which sound like a good deal. I always wanted to ride something small too. Does it make sense to have it as a second bike and where it would fit in the big picture? Signaturethank you, Andy > tomor...@erols.com wrote: > > I suppose if I were limited to one bike (ick) I would choose the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > around $8K. Asking as a newbie with only FZ-1 experience - what it is > missing when compared with the Multistrada 1100S? Hey, Andy! I don't think amything is missing from the FZ-1 when compared to the Multistrada 1100S, other than that the Ohlins suspension is better than the stock FZ-1 components. I have actually ridden an FZ-1 (although not the current one; the original model) so I do have some personal experience. From my personal standpoint, I think both bikes - both generations of the FZ-1 AND all variants of the Multistrada - are ugly as sin; with the Ducatis being clearly uglier than the FZs. However, this thread is all about personal preference, and I spent years riding Japanese multis before I discovered Ducati V-twins way back in 1986, and I have preferred 90-degree v-twin engines in almost every situation and in almost every application (almost, not ALL) since then. I think that the FZ-1 is CLEARLY a better value when compared to the MST1100S ... but again, as far as personal circumstances are concerned, I am blessed after 29 years of working my a.s off to be able to afford any motorcycle I want, regardless of cost, and I seldom consider cost in my own personal calculation is concerned. I cetainly understand that it IS a consideration in most motorcycle purchases! > > I could live with that combo, but I sure > > wouldn't be as happy as I am with the multibike arrangement I've got > > now. > > In short - what would be two bike arrangement for above profile. to make > it more difficult, lets add tiny bit of some off-road requirements. Oh, I ride a Ducati Monster S4Rs around town and for day trips into the Shenandoah mountains and at track days. I think I could do all those things on the Multistrada (or the FZ-1) but don't think it would do it as well - FOR ME - as the Monster does. I ride a 103 cubic inch Harley Street Glide (92 hp and 107 ft-lbs of torque, with Brembo full floating brakes and Progressive suspension) as my commuter, tourer, weekend trip, cross country bike. Again, I think I could do all those things on the Multistrada (or the FZ-1) but don't think it would do it as well - FOR ME - as the Harley does. Luckily, dirt is neither an option nor an attraction to me, so I don't need to factor it into my riding plans! I suppose (based on Gary Eagan's comments after his cross Canadian dash) that the MST1100S would be "okay" in the dirt, but this rider personally would just as soon never find out... to each their own! > One more question: OP did not mention BMW in his list. Would one of its > models pay the bill? Maybe for someone else. BMW, other than the new 800cc parallel twins, currently offers no models that hold any interest to me at all. > Last question: I have an opportunity to acquire the small 2004 4k miles > 250 Ninja for $1300-1500 which sound like a good deal. I always wanted > to ride something small too. Does it make sense to have it as a second > bike and where it would fit in the big picture? I think the 250 Ninja makes both a GREAT town runabout AND first time track bike! Regards, Tim > I don't think amything is missing from the FZ-1 when compared to the > Multistrada 1100S, other than that the Ohlins suspension is better > than the stock FZ-1 components. Rear suspension especially and front as well are quite cheap and do not work for heavier guy lime myself (6' 200lb) even thought they are fully adjustable. So even I with only 14k miles started noticing that. supposedly gen2 is much better with front reversed fork. alfz1 > tomor...@erols.com wrote: > > I don't think amything is missing from the FZ-1 when compared to the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > adjustable. So even I with only 14k miles started noticing that. > supposedly gen2 is much better with front reversed fork. There is NO comparison between the road feel of any Ducati and an FZ1. If you want stability and feedback, look no further than your Ducati dealer. If you want something fast and cheap, the FZ1 wins hands down. > There is NO comparison between the road feel of any Ducati and an > FZ1. If you want stability and feedback, look no further than your > Ducati dealer. If you want something fast and cheap, the FZ1 wins > hands down. Out of the box I guess. I read a FZ-1 forum and and after some mods FZ1 becomes quite capable ... But which Ducati you mean when comparing with FZ-1? One more question: I try to learn how above Duc performs let's say against Firebolt? Signaturealfz1 -> alfirebolt? > > There is NO comparison between the road feel of any Ducati and an > > FZ1. If you want stability and feedback, look no further than your [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > But which Ducati you mean when comparing with FZ-1? They're all similar. Truckish steering, incomparable feel and stability. > One more question: I try to learn how above Duc performs let's say > against Firebolt? I like the Firebolt. The handlebars are situated 2 or 3 inches too low, but the rest of the bike works pretty well. I think I'd opt for the newer Rotax model, not because of the extra 20 hp or so, but because it has an extra gallon or more of fuel capacity. Just be careful as a sloppy hand will launch you like a Patriot missle. Get lazy at the controls at your own peril. >>> There is NO comparison between the road feel of any Ducati and an >>> FZ1. If you want stability and feedback, look no further than your [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Just be careful as a sloppy hand will launch you like a Patriot > missle. Get lazy at the controls at your own peril. That low end grunt right off idle takes a careful throttle hand. Tim did mention something about the Buell's 'Torque avalanche' :) And he's right... But being used to the Buell's off idle torque also has me a bit spoiled. I get on an inline 4, and I'll stall it almost every time off the line. >>> I don't want to start a bike war but we need ON TOPIC threads now and >>> threads that everyone can respond to. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > wouldn't be as happy as I am with the multibike arrangement I've got > now. Some of us need to live with one bike though :) So I built /my/ perfect bike... Low maintenance, great gas mileage for commuting(46-61MPG), great ergos(for me, at least). More than enough horsepower for the street, and for the occasional track day. http://picasaweb.google.com/mackay.steve/FinalUlyboltPics I use an autocom system for my music, GPS, and communications needs. > http://picasaweb.google.com/mackay.steve/FinalUlyboltPics I am going to test ride Buell soon. What year/model you have got? Signaturealfz1 >> http://picasaweb.google.com/mackay.steve/FinalUlyboltPics > > I am going to test ride Buell soon. What year/model you have got? Buell doesn't make a bike that looks like mine... I started with an '07 Buell Super TT. Which is Buell's version of the "hypermotard". A good amount of suspension travel. http://picasaweb.google.com/mackay.steve/BuellSTT I then added a firebolt front fairing. http://picasaweb.google.com/mackay.steve/TTSheSRED But didn't use the Buell lights, because quite frankly, they don't give out enough light IMHO. I used Hella 90mm lights. http://picasaweb.google.com/mackay.steve/HellaLightsForXB12XRSTT I then added a Ulysses tail section and side cases. http://picasaweb.google.com/mackay.steve/UlyboltStageIIPartI http://picasaweb.google.com/mackay.steve/UlyboltStageIIPartDeux Mr Buell himself liked it. As did most of the Buell engineers at the Buell 'Homecoming' bash. http://picasaweb.google.com/mackay.steve/Signatures Save for the Hella headlights, it's all Buell parts, and a bit of rewiring. > Mr Buell himself liked it. As did most of the Buell engineers at the > Buell 'Homecoming' bash. > http://picasaweb.google.com/mackay.steve/Signatures thx for all the info. for me the biggest problem is the suspension. I wonder how the Firebolt behaves under two up escapes. For instance FZ-1 suspension barely keeps up with 350lb of people mass (not including the gear and other stuff) when ridden in two up configuration. The rear spring does not have any room to address even small road irregularities what really sucks for the backpack (I mean the passenger - backpack is a polish slang name of the passenger :-). How close the XB12STT suspension is to Ulysees one? BTW: is there any way to see it in the person ... I leave in Chicago ... Regards, Andy >> Mr Buell himself liked it. As did most of the Buell engineers at the >> Buell 'Homecoming' bash. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > what really sucks for the backpack (I mean the passenger - backpack is a > polish slang name of the passenger :-). I've not done any real 2 up riding, besides with my 50LB/5 year old son. So I can't tell you how it handles with 2 adults. But it should be somewhat similar to a Ulysses. Which, by all I've heard is excellent. I'm 220LBS, and it handles the rough stuff at a rapid pace very well. Better than any bike I've ever ridden. > How close the XB12STT suspension is to Ulysees one? It's got about an inch less suspension travel. Not as 'mushy' as the Uly, and the front end doesn't dive under hard braking as bad as the Uly. But that inch more suspension travel vs the standard lightning and firebolt give it a really nice ride. > BTW: is there any way to see it in the person ... I leave in Chicago ... I live just west of Milwaukee, so it's a definite possibility :) shoot me an email at: mackay dot steve at gmail dot com. I'm friends with the owner, and a bunch of the sales staff at one of the largest/most popular Buell dealerships in the country up here. So if'n you wanted to do some test rides, you certainly could come up here and ride just about everything on Saturday. They've got some ex-Buell fleet demo bikes at like 15-20% off right now as well. >> I don't want to start a bike war but we need ON TOPIC threads now and >> threads that everyone can respond to. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Andy Andy,I did mention the FZ-1 in with the FZ-6. I rode an FZ-1 once and found the engine buzzy and poor low end carburation. Plus it was a bit tall for me. SignatureBob Nixon, RZ-350, Chandler, AZ. > Andy,I did mention the FZ-1 in with the FZ-6. I rode an FZ-1 once and found > the engine buzzy and poor low end carburation. Plus it was a bit tall for > me. I meant the category not the bike (I saw you listed FZ-1 indeed which is first of all a street one but widely used as multi-purpose one with its pros and cons) As a beginner-intermediate rider (14k miles which is nothing) I started better recognizing what I really need recently. And it seems the FZ-1 is not the one. This is why I mentioned I am missing do_it_all category. Thanks a lot for starting this thread. > > Andy,I did mention the FZ-1 in with the FZ-6. I rode an FZ-1 once and found > > the engine buzzy and poor low end carburation. Plus it was a bit tall for [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > better recognizing what I really need recently. And it seems the FZ-1 is > not the one. This is why I mentioned I am missing do_it_all category. What one REALLY needs, now there's a topic. I just recently rode a Harley 883 around Ketchikan Alaska. It had a Sundowner seat, sissybar, and forward mounted pegs. It was extremely comfy for both me and my wife. Virtually no vibration (from the recently rubber mounted enigne) save a little at idle. Accelerated up to 65 mph to up very briskly and with the wind protection offered by the windscreen I could ride it across the country no problem. I didn't ride it hard enough to drag pegs, but I cut a few corners and noticed no ill effects from the ancient (but beefed up with the rubber engine mounted) mild steel frame. The single sided front brakes and rear shocks are subpar for sure. The 1200 fixes the brake part, but I'm afraid Works or Progressive are the only hope for the rear shocks. I liked the old FZ1 alright too, though I thought the Kaw ZRX had motor all over it especially at the low end. I also felt the FZ1 front end lacked feel. It can be ridden hard and fast, just don't expect it to relay to you a lot of information. It is comfy and reasonably fast if just a little buzzy. The ones I rode weren't as buzzy as Bob's apparently. Then again, we are way different sized guys so maybe his man/bike structure just creates a more pronounced resonant frequency. > I don't want to start a bike war but we need ON TOPIC threads now and > threads that everyone can respond to. I'll start it out with more detail > than you really need or voice your opinion if you like. I'd like to have a sport bike for fun, a touring bike with some ground clearance, and a track/race bike. I know what I want for the track - a RS-250. The maintenance costs are a bitch (twice a RS-125), and Honda seems intent on killing 2-smokes. This caught my attention in the recent AMA rag: <http://www.450moto.com/> It sounds like it has the potential to handle like a GP bike, but still be a 4-stroke. Really, I want to stick with race-only bikes for the track. They weigh nothing, crash well, and are designed to be worked on. My RC51 seems like a good bike for the closer twisty roads (including my daily commute). A 1098S, the new Buell, or a Triple of some kind come to mind also. But, the right Triple might be what I need for the sport touring bike. Something that handles well, but I can just point in a direction, and see where I end up a week later. I really want I bike I can do that with. Also, some of the BMWs sound promising. And that FJR.... - Kurt > This caught my attention in the recent > AMA rag: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It sounds like it has the potential to handle like a GP bike, but still > be a 4-stroke. Incredible. Awesome. Thanks for the link! > Incredible. Awesome. Thanks for the link! Did you see the interview with King Kenny in the recent RRW where he and the interviewer were talking about bringing back a real spec class, and how well suited the 2-strokes are. This might be the ticket if the 2-stroke does get killed off. - Kurt > tomor...@erols.com <tomor...@erols.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > how well suited the 2-strokes are. This might be the ticket if the > 2-stroke does get killed off. I did read that article. I'm not a KR fan (except for when he was a rider) and I can't believe he would consider what the manufacturers have done from the RD350 through the current 600 class to be BAD for grass roots racing (!) but then I think he thinks of racing from the professional's pov, and I think about it purely from the amateur's pov. In either cas, though, I think those 450 4-strokes would be MUCH BETTER grass roots AND entry level GP-style racers than today's production-based 600's, in SPITE of how good the 600's have become. Do you agree? > pov. In either cas, though, I think those 450 4-strokes would be > MUCH BETTER grass roots AND entry level GP-style racers than today's > production-based 600's, in SPITE of how good the 600's have become. > Do you agree? I'd buy one. The bike looks like it could offer what a 2-stroke can. You are able to race a 10 year old 2-stroke competitively, and they are pretty much race ready in stock form (although they are pricey stock). You can't say that about any 600 - you are out of date with a three year old bike. - Kurt >> tomor...@erols.com <tomor...@erols.com> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > production-based 600's, in SPITE of how good the 600's have become. > Do you agree? Are these 450's singles? If so, they'd be lucky to keep up with the current 125cc two strokes. Getting 100+ HP out of a 450cc NA 4 stroke single would be impossible unless they used alcohol /nitromethane fuel at 80% nitro levels.Then they wouldn't last a whole race before grenading. This sounds like a really crappy idea just to make all MC racing environmentally friendly. PS. It would take at least a 4 cylinder NA 4 cycle engine to make 100+ or competitive with the current 250 two stroke twins. Also, to hell with a grass roots attempt that would be more expensive than the current 2 stroke twins. SignatureBob Nixon, RZ-350, Chandler, AZ. > tomor...@erols.com wrote: > >> tomor...@erols.com <tomor...@erols.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > grass roots attempt that would be more expensive than the current 2 stroke > twins. Yes, they are 450cc four stroke singles. They are not trying to keep up with any two strokes. No more tham 125cc two strokes are trying to keep up with 250cc two strokes, and no more than 250cc two strokes were trying to keep up with 500cc two strokes when there were such things. Different classes for different bikes. No one is trying to get 100 hp out of the 450cc four stroke singles. This is not an attempt to make motorcycle racing environmentally friendly. It IS an attempt to make pure roadrace motorcycles more economically friendly. The 4-stroke single cylinder bikes being contemplated would, of course, cost MUCH less than 2 stroke twin GP bikes, and MUCH less than 600cc production street bikes, and would cost less than either to maintain, or crash repair. They would, however, provide close racing at low cost on manageable bikes at lower weight and less complexity requiring less tuning, while being easy on tires,.easy on brakes, and less likely to cause injury. I know that's all bad stuff, but I'm perverse enough to be attracted to it! >> tomor...@erols.com wrote: >> >> tomor...@erols.com <tomor...@erols.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > I know that's all bad stuff, but I'm perverse enough to be attracted > to it! Did you run the Skorpion Cup Races Tim? SignatureAndrew 00 Daytona 00 Speed Triple 71 Kawi H1 05 Infant On Aug 17, 11:58 pm, "Andrew" <yogig.no.spamm.spam...@hotmail.nospamm.com> wrote: > Did you run the Skorpion Cup Races Tim? No; I did race an MZ Skorpion in local WERA LW/Clubman races, but that was just for kicks and grins after I had pretty much decided already to rerire. >> tomor...@erols.com wrote: >> >> tomor...@erols.com <tomor...@erols.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > I know that's all bad stuff, but I'm perverse enough to be attracted > to it! I could see your points for a TRAINING type bike but MGP is top line stuff and the spectators should get to see the best of what their high ticket prices and TV ad's can handle, if you catch my drift? I've also heard of a new 600 4 cylinder class of 4 strokes. That's almost as big as a 800cc GP bike. It's going to be mass confusion for a couple of years at best:) The current 450 4 stroke domination is what bores me about Motocross racing. There the only reason the 450 is competitive with the 250 two stroke is because handling over 50 HP in the dirt from 220lb bikes is nearly impossible and the 250's are tuned more for torque than having 100+ HP like MGP. Just my opinion as I strongly believe there is plenty of technology left in the unwastefull two stroke design.All it takes s the will to improve them like the Euro's have done with the Diesel engine. SignatureBob Nixon, RZ-350, Chandler, AZ. > I could see your points for a TRAINING type bike but MGP is top line stuff > and the spectators should get to see the best of what their high ticket > prices and TV ad's can handle, if you catch my drift? I've also heard of a I must have missed something - I didn't think anyone was talking about FIM GP. As as far as I know, they are shooting to replace the 250's with 400cc 4-strokes by 2012 - although I have heard there is a push to move it along quicker. No word on the 125s as far as I know. - Kurt >> I could see your points for a TRAINING type bike but MGP is top line >> stuff and the spectators should get to see the best of what their high [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > - Kurt Kurt, I must have missed it too. I see MC racing much differently than Tim or other CCSSers who have spend their own hard earneed money to race for themselves not the spectators unlike Rossi and other high paid MGP stars. I see a general dumbing down of all sports and in particular motorsports.Face it, the racers are making millions but at the same time want to "play it safer" with air fences and such. Frankly, I believe to finish a season all qualified racers should have to race the Isle of Mann TT once a year to qualify for the points. Folks I also want to see the latest in technology in MGP racing not some big 4 stroke single that has no co-cylinder scavenging, just one big piston and a heavy low revving valve train.Two strokes on the other hand do not require multiple cylinders to obtain greater performance. IOW, a two stroke 125, 250 or 500 can all put out >400HP/liter. That's 1 cylinder or 4 it really doesn't matter for reasons beyond the scope of this discussion. SignatureBob Nixon, RZ-350, Chandler, AZ. > >> I could see your points for a TRAINING type bike but MGP is top line > >> stuff and the spectators should get to see the best of what their high [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > finish a season all qualified racers should have to race the Isle of Mann > TT once a year to qualify for the points. So, how many racers need to die or be crippled annually to make the Bob Nixon cut? Duhamel just suffered what are most likely career ending injuries, and that was with air fence. Would you have been happier if he had bounced off the concrete wall there in 12 at RA? SignatureTweak > injuries, and that was with air fence. Would you have been happier if > he had bounced off the concrete wall there in 12 at RA? Air fences are poor fixes to badly designed (from a motorcycle perspective) tracks. I like the idea of air fences. I don't like the idea of traction control, and all the other electronic control system crap. - Kurt >> >> I could see your points for a TRAINING type bike but MGP is top line >> >> stuff and the spectators should get to see the best of what their high [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > injuries, and that was with air fence. Would you have been happier if > he had bounced off the concrete wall there in 12 at RA? It's not a matter of how many have to die or get maimed. Most these pro-racers won't even ride on the street anymore because in their minds it's too dangerous. On the Isle of Mann thing, I think anyone with their yearly salary exceeding 1 million should have to race the course and beat some arbitrary (fairly conservative time) to stay in the game. That's how it all started or with guys that loved motorcycles more thing money or worse yet the fear of death. Same with other sports. Make pro-golfers be able to run a 6 minute mile and similar feats with other big money pro sports. SignatureBob Nixon, RZ-350, Chandler, AZ. > It's not a matter of how many have to die or get maimed. Most these > pro-racers won't even ride on the street anymore because in their minds [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > it all started or with guys that loved motorcycles more thing money or > worse yet the fear of death. How about idiot amateur racers with families who risk it all without life insurance for a plastic trophy on a weekend? WTF is up with THOSE nutters? >> It's not a matter of how many have to die or get maimed. Most these >> pro-racers won't even ride on the street anymore because in their minds [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > WTF is up with THOSE nutters? Tim, if you go back a few posts of mine in this thread, you'll see that I consider you guys the "salt of the earth" or just racing for the love of it using your own money,etc. I hope that clears it up in your mind. BTW, those big 350+ lb football linemen! 6 minute miles and for all those NASCAR 50+ lardasses too. SignatureBob Nixon, RZ-350, Chandler, AZ. > tomor...@erols.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > consider you guys the "salt of the earth" or just racing for the love of it > using your own money,etc. I hope that clears it up in your mind. Ah, that's okay, Bob. I was just having a moment of inner reflection about how stupid we (I) can be in the larger scheme of things, that's all. > I could see your points for a TRAINING type bike but MGP is top line stuff Yeah, generally when I'm talking about grass roots racing, club racing, amateur racing, and specificially saying "as opposed to professional racing," why then, I'm not talking about MotoGP. Especially when I don't mention MotoGP, FIM, GP, World Superbike, World Supersport, British Superbike, Australian Superbike, or AMA Pro racing. > and the spectators should get to see the best of what their high ticket > prices and TV ad's can handle, if you catch my drift? I've also heard of a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > left in the unwastefull two stroke design.All it takes s the will to > improve them like the Euro's have done with the Diesel engine. The current four stroke domination in production-based motorcycle racing is directly attributable to the fact that the factories wish to sell four stroke production machines. The current four stroke rules in MotoGP are a direct result of the factories wiching to be able to point out trickle-down improvements and/or technological advances from their GP bikes in their advertising for their street bikes. Street bike buyers, for th emost part, are the target audience for motorcycle roadracing, and thus the factories have decided that they want that racing to be include motorcycles that street bike buyers can identify with. I like watchign four stroke GP bikes and I like watching 2 stroke GP bikes. I'm not going to buy a race replica motorcycle though, except as a track bike, and probably not even then. So, I am not the target audience, and the factories couldn't care less whether I like 2-stroke racing or not. If you want to change things, you'll need to convince the motorcycle manufacturers that it is in their best interest to pursue 2 stroke technology, racing, advertising, and sales. Seems to me that they've already made up their minds to the contrary. The diesel improvements in Europe haven't been driven by "will." They've been driven by economic factors and good old profit motive. > Are these 450's singles? If so, they'd be lucky to keep up with the current > 125cc two strokes. Getting 100+ HP out of a 450cc NA 4 stroke single would A stock 125 is 40 hp if you tune it right. I know I have heard rumors of 60 for the FIM GP.... As for keeping up with the 125s, there are plenty of 600s that can't do much better. > competitive with the current 250 two stroke twins. Also, to hell with a > grass roots attempt that would be more expensive than the current 2 stroke > twins. Well, the concern is that 2-strokes are getting killed off, and Honda is leading the way. This spring, the price for a piston doubled out of nowhere. No explanation, no reason, just twice the price from Honda passed down to the consumer. It sucks, really. - Kurt > > Are these 450's singles? If so, they'd be lucky to keep up with the current > > 125cc two strokes. Getting 100+ HP out of a 450cc NA 4 stroke single would [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > nowhere. No explanation, no reason, just twice the price from Honda > passed down to the consumer. Welcome to the world of the Ducatisi...low volumes mean high prices. > Welcome to the world of the Ducatisi...low volumes mean high prices. It doesn't explain why the price suddenly doubled. There are a good number of RS-125 and RS-250 bikes out there that constantly need new pistons. Quite literally, one day the price just doubled. - Kurt > > Welcome to the world of the Ducatisi...low volumes mean high prices. > > It doesn't explain why the price suddenly doubled. There are a good number > of RS-125 and RS-250 bikes out there that constantly need new pistons. Quite > literally, one day the price just doubled. Back about 10-12 years ago, when I was restoring my 1966 Super 90, using all oem Honda parts, Honda corporate was still wedded to the idea of providing parts for all motorcycles they had ever produced. If you needed a part for a 1963 Super Hawk, and your dealer didn't have it, they'd check all the other dealers (eventually all the other dealers in the world!) to get it for you. When it came in, you paid the regular list price for it, and if the part hadn't been ordered anywhere else for 10 years, you paid a 10-year-old list price. If they couldn't find the part, they would have one MANUFACTURED for you! Well, right about the time I finished that project, Honda notified their dealers that they were only going to support their bike for 15 model years (still better than most car models!) and suddenly prices on those old parts from the back of the shelf quadrupled and quintupled. Yep. Overnight. >>> Are these 450's singles? If so, they'd be lucky to keep up with the current >>> 125cc two strokes. Getting 100+ HP out of a 450cc NA 4 stroke single would [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Welcome to the world of the Ducatisi...low volumes mean high prices. That doesn't ALWAYS have to be the case.... Buell sells *LESS* bikes than Ducati. Yet the replacement parts are generally much cheaper. > I don't want to start a bike war but we need ON TOPIC threads now and > threads that everyone can respond to. I'll start it out with more detail > than you really need or voice your opinion if you like. [CUT] I noted you did not mention BMW - any particular reason? Signaturealfz1 >> I don't want to start a bike war but we need ON TOPIC threads now and >> threads that everyone can respond to. I'll start it out with more detail [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I noted you did not mention BMW - any particular reason? ^ Too expensive for what you get or either heavy low tech bikes or me too tech drivetrains. Reliability has actually gone down on the never BMW bikes too. SignatureBob Nixon, RZ-350, Chandler, AZ. > I don't want to start a bike war but we need ON TOPIC threads now and > threads that everyone can respond to. I'll start it out with more detail > than you really need or voice your opinion if you like. > > New Race reps. All lists, most favorite to least favorite: > Ducati all models: overpriced and high maintenance. As the only 1098 owner on AMS ( I think) you might be interested in some impressions: I was out on the race track last Sat. Not a real track day but even with the restrictions of not passing the track moderators ( all race guys who were intent on preventing carnage) I and others could crack off some pretty fast laps. The 1098 is FAST, pulls smoothly from 2.5k to 11.25k although I've only seen the first of the 3 warning lights that go off. which I've been told is @9.75k. After the 3rd light it's on to the rev limiter. The dash is all digital on a LCD panel and frankly it's not my cup of tea.Way hard to see BUT....did I say this bike is FAST... For Andrew, Jamin, and Banon who have all been on the PIR race track, I was seeing over 120mph by the overhead bridge while not even running very fast through turn 9. One of my friends was out in front of me on a R6 and lap after lap I'd be coming up on him so insanely fast that I'd have to back off each time to slow down as he was following the leader that we weren't allowed to pass ( if you were red flaged for passing the leader-end of track time:) Did I mention that the Duc has extremely powerful brakes and ground clearance that allowing running to the edge of the tires without touching anything down. I usually use my feet as ground clearance guides...this doesn't work (so far) for this bike or let's say I haven't found the limits yet. A fellow that I met on a street ride who has a 1098 was turning 172mph at a track day 2 weeks ago. Shawn Roberti who was one of the top racers locally over ten years ago ( he has a 17 year old son who's starting to race go-carts) was out on the track with a box stock 1098S (no aftermarket exhaust etc and was turning 1:09s. To put this in perspective Doug Chandler just set the motorcycle track record in June @ 1:06.6. I could go on and on about the confidence this bike inspires but I'm sure you get the point. Out on the street I really don't go to much faster then on my monster but that does leave a little extra safety margin. Plus it's really easy to pull back in line while cage passing etc... > As the only 1098 owner on AMS ( I think) you might be interested in some impressions: Chiming in here as another 1098 owner. I echo your sentiments about the bike's capabilities. >> I don't want to start a bike war but we need ON TOPIC threads now and >> threads that everyone can respond to. I'll start it out with more detail [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > on my monster but that does leave a little extra safety margin. Plus it's > really easy to pull back in line while cage passing etc... Brutus, thanks for your input on the new 1098. I'm curious about a few things: 1) OTD price? 2) Engine differnces from other Duc's; valve train etc? 3) Suspension components? 4) Wet weight? 5) Real Dyno HP? 6) Tires OEM? TIA. SignatureBob Nixon, RZ-350, Chandler, AZ. > >> I don't want to start a bike war but we need ON TOPIC threads now and > >> threads that everyone can respond to. I'll start it out with more detail [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > TIA. Not that this has anything to do with the 1098, but you reminded me of an article I read a couple weeks back by Cameron IIRC. He was promoting the idea that the reason Duc GPs are more powerful than all the Jap screamers is the efficiency of the Desmo valve train. > >> I don't want to start a bike war but we need ON TOPIC threads now and > >> threads that everyone can respond to. I'll start it out with more detail [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > things: > 1) OTD price? They had promised that they would only charge list price but when it came time to pick up the bike they had tacked on an extra $1K for shipping/handling,set up etc. 16k OTD :( > 2) Engine differnces from other Duc's; valve train etc? All of the Duc engines are becoming more refined and they have increased the service interval to 7.5k. They don't even check the valve clearance's at 600 miles anymore. The 6oo mile service would have cost me $182 but I bought the 3year unlimited milage service package for $1,600, this includes oil/filter changes at any milage interval I choose :) The new engine has shorter rocker arms,straighter intake tracks with a narrower valve angle. Intake valves are increased from 40mm to 42mm and exhaust valves from 33mm to 34mm. All of the engine refinements have reduced weight by 11lbs. > 3) Suspension components? My bike is the standard and uses Showa forks and rear shock plus a none adjustable steering damper.The S model uses Olins and has a 3 lbs lighter set off wheels. > 4) Wet weight? I haven't weighted the bike yet BUT the dry weight listed in the owners manual is 173 kg (380.6lbs) without fuel,fluids and battery AND 188kg (413.6lbs) without fuel. This closely matches the published weights that I've seen....435lbs fueled up. > 5) Real Dyno HP? Another oddity: the manual only claims 154 hp at the crank NOT the much hyped 160hp. This seems to be more realistic# as I've seen around 140hp at the rear wheel published. The aftermarket Termi full system is said to give an addational 10-12hp...I'm still a long way off from adjusting to the 140hp :-) > 6) Tires OEM? Pirelli Dragon Supercorsa Pros > TIA. Bob, you're a inspiration to all of us and have indirectly affected my street riding, making me a bit more cautious about deer strikes. BTW I've had 3 deer encounters with the new bike but none of the close varity :) >> >> I don't want to start a bike war but we need ON TOPIC threads now and >> >> threads that everyone can respond to. I'll start it out with more [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > street riding, making me a bit more cautious about deer strikes. BTW I've > had 3 deer encounters with the new bike but none of the close varity :) Thanks for both comprehensive answers and the kudos about deer accident. I'm actually starting to warm up a bit to the Ducati line, mostly due to their popularity in AMS, SignatureBob Nixon, RZ-350, Chandler, AZ. > > 2) Engine differnces from other Duc's; valve train etc? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > valves are increased from 40mm to 42mm and exhaust valves from 33mm to 34mm. All of the engine > refinements have reduced weight by 11lbs. FWIW, in the 60k or so miles I owned the Ducs I had a valve clearance issue once and that was due to flaky, out of warranty rockers that were replaced by Ducati for free. I was using 12k intervals toward the end, though doing a lot of high rpm track work takes it toll on em so I hear. <SNIP> >> 5) Real Dyno HP? > > Another oddity: the manual only claims 154 hp at the crank NOT the much hyped 160hp. This seems to > be more realistic# as I've seen around 140hp at the rear wheel published. The aftermarket Termi full > system is said to give an addational 10-12hp...I'm still a long way off from adjusting to the 140hp > :-) I've never seen a "stock" 1098 tested in the magazines. According to some friends of mine, the 1098 stock, puts out 131 HP at the wheel. It's got a large dip in torque around 6K IIRC, and then picks back up. Which actually makes the bike "feel" faster. Or so I'm told. BTW, the Buell 1125R has 133HP at the wheel on the same dyno :) > <SNIP> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > got a large dip in torque around 6K IIRC, and then picks back up. Which > actually makes the bike "feel" faster. Or so I'm told. Hi Steve,there is no difference in engine spec between the 1098 and the 1098S. I've seen published dyno runs between 137hp-145hp @ rear wheel with torque messured quite flat without any "large dips"between 60 ft-lbs@ 3k to 80ft-lbs @ 8k and then smoothly droping down to about 70ft-lbs @ 10.75K. I've also read reports in some of the Duc web sites of rear wheel hp# in those ballparks...with the additional 10-12hp for the full Termi system ($3K!)... This bike has MOTOR and I'm using that term in the best sense, as like in an electric motor. The bike pulls very smoothly from a little over 2k. > BTW, the Buell 1125R has 133HP at the wheel on the same dyno :) I've ridden a few Buells and have always felt that if Harley would only add a counter-balancer to the small block engine they'd have a much more attractive package. It sounds like the new Rotax engine should address those issues and add LOTS of extra hp:) Interesting discussion. I agree, the "one bike" dream is tough one. I have a nicely modded V- Strom 1000 that was my one bike for a while, and with suspension, hard bags, some performance mods, and a better windshield - I'd still argue that it is a darn fine do it all bike. I've taken it from Alaska to Key West, and down to Mexico, with lots of sport touring in the mountains all over the continent, carrying camping gear, with my gal on back, the bike really does a great job all around. But for play, I had and just sold a nicely modded black DR-Z400 SM. Great bike, but if I did it again I'd go for the Husky 510 or 610. The 400SM just didn't have enough umph over 70mph, making it less fun once you leave town or technical twisties. Or maybe the Superduke 990, but that's a whole different league! And my latest favorite, is a Triumph 675, which I made into a half naked "S" version, which I call the Spitfire. With the T Gel seat, a DB windshield, and some higher clip-ons (I like the Cyclecats) the bike can tour pretty well up to 500 miles a day, especially if you stick to the back roads. And for Sunday morning sport riding, it is the cat's meow. Will try a track day on it next week, too. For street riding, the new Street Triple 675 looks great, too (though I'd change the headlights and add a fly screen, at least). For power to weight ratio and fun factor, the 675 is really exceptional. If I get serious about the track day trip, I'm in the market for Kawi EX500 Ninja next. But that single 450 looks really tempting, too. Bikes I'd like to try or own next include: Triumph 1050 Sprint ST Kawi ZX-14 with heli bars and hard bags (the new Connie to overly technical, IMO) Another Supermoto, prolly the Husky 510 Or the KTM Superduke 990 Maybe one of the new Buell bikes, I like the uly concept and TT, but I'm sticking with my Strom for now, it is modded to perfection. 2007 Yamaha FZ-6 for gas sipping standard glory, with hard bags And Steve, I live in Madison, WI - and would also love to see your Buell in person - we should go riding sometime in the unglaciated area west of madtown. Or maybe I'll see you at the Slimey Crud Run? > Interesting discussion. > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > Buell in person - we should go riding sometime in the unglaciated area > west of madtown. Or maybe I'll see you at the Slimey Crud Run? *I* will be at the slimey crud run, on my older bike('98 Buell S3T). My 'ulybolt' will be track day preped on a trailer ready for an October 9th track day at Road America. If you want, ALF and I are meeting at Hals Harley Davidson/Buell in New Berlin at 9:30AM on Saturday. Come on up! The more the merrier. :) I'd *LOVE* to see your 675 "spitfire". If'n you're interested, send me an email to mackay dot steve at gmail dot com. I know the owner of the place quite well, and am good friends with a few of the sales people there. You could test ride several of the Buells while we're there :) > *I* will be at the slimey crud run, on my older bike('98 Buell S3T). My > 'ulybolt' will be track day preped on a trailer ready for an October 9th [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > of the sales people there. You could test ride several of the Buells > while we're there :) That would be cool. I'll check with the Misses and see about that Saturday morning ride to brewtown, and get back to ya with the gmail. Here's a few pics of my 675 Spitfire: http://ljossaelf.smugmug.com/gallery/2827471#171798335-L-LB http://ljossaelf.smugmug.com/gallery/2827471#171798501-L-LB I bought it salvage, and had to rebuild the whole front end. I'm still working on the tail section, too, but it has come a bit farther than you can see in these pics. Seems like we had a fairly similar concept in mind, and ended up making our own bike out of other base models. When the Street Triple come out next month I plan to order a few parts for it to complete the package, like rad shrouds and maybe something from the tail section. Too cool! >> *I* will be at the slimey crud run, on my older bike('98 Buell S3T). My >> 'ulybolt' will be track day preped on a trailer ready for an October 9th [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Too cool! I like it. Minimalisc approach at it's finest :) It would be hard to decide on a new bike these days, as there are so many fun and interesting ones. From a practical standpoint, I have less patience for bike that require excessive maintenance at this time. That could change in the future, but With limited time to spend on motorcycling, I'd rather be riding. Here are the bikes I'm at least curious to try, in no particular order, 'cause I can't decide. You may notice that my comment about maintenance requirements doesn't necessarily apply to this list, as it's a list of bikes I'd like to *try*, not necessarily own: Suzuki GSXR1000/750 Kawasaki ZX10 Honda- CBR1000RR Ducati 1098 Ducati Supermotard KTM SuperDuke Kawasaki Concours 14 BMW GS1200 Adventure Some of the bikes above are game-changing, which is the main reason I want to try them. It may tell something about what's coming from other manufacturers as much as what's here now. I don't want to like the BMW too much, as I share Bob's view that they don't deserve the reputation they have for bullet-proof reliability any more. I've said I would never own another Duc (still own the 916), but the 1098 made me say, "uh-oh..." Then I started hearing about the bikes that inexplicably stall at any time. Good to know tradition is alive. I'd love for Ducati to become a manufacturer that can consistently produce reliable bikes, but for now, I could certainly never choose one as an only motorcycle. Oh, I also want to try that Piaggia scooter thing with the dual front wheels... ab > It would be hard to decide on a new bike these days, as there are so > many fun and interesting ones. From a practical standpoint, I have less [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Oh, I also want to try that Piaggia scooter thing with the dual front > wheels... That thing look cool as hell :) |
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