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Motorcycle Forum / General / Technical / July 2005White smoke coming out of my right side exhuast pipe
I have a 97' Suzuki TL1000s, it is a good bike and has not had any problems since I bought it four months ago, I changed oil and filters one month ago and three days ago when turning the key on the bike, not starting the bike, just turning the key the Oil light kept coming on, after starting it would disappear, but I added one quart to the engine anyway... a day later when starting the bike it run for a few minutes than suddenly turned off and white smoke came out the right side exhaust pipe... I turned it on again and it started to run with lots of white smoke coming out the pipes... What happened and how do I fix? -Marcelo > I have a 97' Suzuki TL1000s, it is a good bike and has not had any > problems since I bought it four months ago, I changed oil and filters [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > exhaust pipe... I turned it on again and it started to run with lots of > white smoke coming out the pipes... What happened and how do I fix? Do you have the owner's manual for that motorbike. It will probably tell you whether the oil light is an oil PRESSURE light or an oil LEVEL light... So ar as I know, Suzuki has always had oil PRESSURE lights. Maybe you added too much oil to the engine and it blew some of the excess oil into the airbox... So, open the airbox, remove the air filter and see if it's all oily. You can't clean the oil out of a paper filter, but you can wash a fabric/mesh air filter like a K&N or a rubber foam filter in kerosene... If you have a lot of oil inyour airbox and the oil level in your engine is too high, you will have to drain the oil out and add the correct amount of oil. That information should be right on the clutch cover by the oil filler hole... I looked at the air filter and around the air intake area and yes it had oil all over, I have drained all oil, changed the filter and put the bike bake together, but when I started it, more of the same smoke came out and it began to back fire, lots of smoke & lots of bake fire? what should I do? Marcelo -- Sent via MotorCycle Newsgroups http://www.motorcyclenewsgroups.com > I looked at the air filter and around the air intake area and yes it had > oil all over, I have [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > lots of bake fire? what > should I do? Is the smoke blueish-white and does it linger in the air? That's oil smoke. YOU SHOULD CLEAN OR CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS. An oil-fouled spark plug would cause the engine to backfire. We call that sound "shooting ducks" because that's what it sounds like, hunters shooting at ducks with shot guns...(1) If the problem was excess oil and you cleaned the airbox and filter out, you may still have some oil in the intake tract and that should eventually get sucked through the engine and the smoke should quit. Just give it a little time and it may clear out... But, if it has that much excess oil in the top end of the engine, you might have to clean the spark plugs again and again until the oil is all gone. And, I wouldn't recommend revving the engine up or riding hard until it stops smoking. There's always the possiblity that excess oil in the intake tract would cause a hydraulic lock when the engine just can't rotate against excess oil trapped in the combustion chamber... So, when you clean or replace your spark plugs, be sure to push the starter button with the plugs out and open the throttle and BLOW THE OIL ACCUMULATION OUT OF THE CYLINDERS... Other reasons why engines smoke are leaky valve guide oil seals and worn out or broken piston rings. If the valve guide seals leak, the engine smokes when first started, but stops smoking. If the piston rings are worn out or broken, the engine will smoke all the time... But, if the smoke is very white, and it rises and dissipates rapidly, it may be water vapor. DOES THE SMOKE SMELL LIKE ANTI-FREEZE? Do you find droplets of water on the spark plug nose when you remove the spark plug from the engine when it's cold? That would indicate something like a blown cylinder head gasket, a cracked head or a cracked cylinder... If you remove the radiator cap and run the engine, you'll see air bubbles in the coolant if you have a blown gasket or cracked cylinder head... (1) I was watching an automobile race as the sun went down. It was a race for older cars that were no longer competitive on the Indy Car race circuit. But the points leader still needed points to guarantee his championship in the vintage car season. So he was out driving his smoking car around the race track. As the engine backfired, I saw big orange flames come out the exhaust pipes everytime the engine "shot ducks"... > Other reasons why engines smoke are leaky valve guide oil seals and > worn out or broken piston rings. If the valve guide seals leak, the > engine smokes when first started, but stops smoking. If the piston > rings are worn out or broken, the engine will smoke all the time... How about overfilled crankcase (engine oil level too high)? Or piston rings stuck by rust or other dirt or corrosion? > How about overfilled crankcase (engine oil level too high)? We're pretty sure that's Marcello's problem... > Or piston rings stuck by rust or other dirt or corrosion? Piston rings will stick if the engine already uses a lot of oil and runs really hot and then the oil carburizes into a dark chocolate-colored goo that hardens when it cools and glues the rings in place... Old time racers were fond of castor-based oils because they flowed toward hot spots instead of away from them. So the rings would get hot and the castor would gum them up with a black sticky goo... But racers didn't care, they would tear the engine down after every race and clean the goo out... About the closest any petroleum oil comes to acting like that is some of the high asphalt content West Coast oils that would leave a lot of black sludge up under the valve covers. Pennsylvania crude oil had a higher paraffin content and ran cleaner... So then it is not something a novice like my self can work on? Is there any way to check if it is > piston rings stuck by rust or other dirt or corrosion? or > If the problem was excess oil and you cleaned the airbox and filter > out, you may still have some oil in the intake tract and that >should > eventually get sucked through the engine and the smoke should quit. > Just give it a little time and it may clear out... > But, if it has that much excess oil in the top end of the engine, >you might have to clean the spark plugs again and again until the >oil is all gone. And, I wouldn't recommend revving the engine up or >riding hard until it stops smoking. There's always the possiblity >that excess oil in the intake tract would cause a hydraulic lock >when the engine just can't rotate against excess oil trapped in the >combustion chamber... Marcelo -- Sent via MotorCycle Newsgroups http://www.motorcyclenewsgroups.com > So then it is not something a novice like my self can work on? Is there > any way to check if it is piston rings stuck by rust or other dirt [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > eventually get sucked through the engine and the smoke should quit. > > Just give it a little time and it may clear out... Have you removed the spark plugs and cleaned them or replaced them? The most logical problem is that you over-filled your crankcase with oil because you believed the oil light coming on indicated low oil level. So the excess oil was blown up into the air box and it fouled the spark plugs. That explains the backfiring... Nothing that YOU have said leads me to believe that you have stuck rings, I was explaining to Matt why stuck rings got stuck... I will do that and see what happens then. should I crank engine when plugs are removed to release any extra oil, or just replace or clean plugs? Marcelo -- Sent via MotorCycle Newsgroups http://www.motorcyclenewsgroups.com > I will do that and see what happens then. should I crank engine when > plugs are removed to release any extra oil, or just replace or clean > plugs? Remove the spark plugs and crank the engine over with the plugs out to blow any excess oil out of the engine. Don't crank the engine continuously with the starter. Just crank for five seconds at a time. Do that several times. The starter is very expen$ive and you don't want to overheat it by cranking for too long... It would be nice if you could remove the fuse for the fuel pump while you're doing this so the fuel injectors can't squirt a lot of gasoline into the engine. If you crank the engine over while it's cold, the brain box thinks you're trying to start the engine and it tries to inject a very rich mixture... Even if the spark plugs look clean, as long as you have them out of the engine, you might as well replace them. Spark plugs have a strange way of going bad internally. I haven't figured out what makes them do that when they aren't dirty looking. Maybe they get moisture condensed in them somehow and the engine won't start or it runs crappy. About $5 will get you 2 new spark plugs... After removing old plugs, I cranked engine twice for five seconds each time, no oil came out of the sparck plug holes, so I replaced with new plugs and ran bike for about 3 minutes when the smoke began again, not as much mind you, but still smoke, I removed plugs to see the how dirty they had gotten, they had some darkness to the tips, so I cleaned them and put them back in, I put the bike back together and went for a small 5 to 7 minute ride, it was cut short because the smoke began to come out almost as bad as the first time. Was I supossed to crank for loner and for more times? How long should I expect to burn excess oil before it clears? Is there a chance the if I crank engine with out spark plugs I could damage engine timing? Marcelo -- Sent via MotorCycle Newsgroups http://www.motorcyclenewsgroups.com > After removing old plugs, I cranked engine twice for five seconds each > time, no oil came out of the sparck plug holes, so I replaced with new [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 5 to 7 minute ride, it was cut short because the smoke began to come out > almost as bad as the first time. Your exhaust pipe may still have a lot of oil in the bottom... > Was I supossed to crank for loner and for more times? If you didn't see a lot of oil come out the spark plug hole, you should be OK... > How long should I expect to burn excess oil before it clears? If you get the engine well warmed up by riding for half and hour or so and it still smokes, you might have piston ring problems. If you can get ahold of a compression tester you can pull the spark plugs out and test the compression with the engine warmed up and the throttle wide open. I would expect to see at least 150 psi from each cylinder... > Is there a chance the if I crank engine with out spark plugs I could > damage engine timing? No, you wouldn't change the ignition timing as far as I know. It's an e;ectronic ignition system with some electronic circuitry that actually seems to retard the spark at low RPM and then lets the ignition fire earlier and earlier as the RPM increase... The ignition advance circuitry wouldn't be getting more than about 12 or 13 volts when you're cranking the engine with the spark plugs out... But the reason you should put the spark plugs into their caps and ground them to the cylinder head so they will spark is to mave that small spark gap at the plug be the place the spark jumps. If you leave the spark plug leads disconnected and crank the engine over, the 25,000 to 40,000 volt secondary voltage could possibly jump from one winding to another inside an ignition coil and ruin it... > After removing old plugs, I cranked engine twice for five seconds each > time, no oil came out of the sparck plug holes, so I replaced with new [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 5 to 7 minute ride, it was cut short because the smoke began to come out > almost as bad as the first time. I thought I mentioned the crank clutch side seals must be gone or was at least a possibility. REALLY REALLY REALLY try this. Drain the oil out of the transmission. Put maybe 200cc/half a cup back in. That's probably less then 1/3 what it should have but will be enough to splatter around a bit. Don't ride the bike with the oil this low. See if it still smokes after it warms up and report back. > I thought I mentioned the crank clutch side seals must be gone or was at > least a possibility. > > REALLY REALLY REALLY try this. NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! DO NOT DO THIS! Cello's motorbike is a four-stroke V-twin. It's NOT a 2-stroke! > Drain the oil out of the transmission. Put maybe 200cc/half a cup back > in. That's probably less then 1/3 what it should have but will be enough > to splatter around a bit. Don't ride the bike with the oil this low. See > if it still smokes after it warms up and report back. NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! DO NOT DO THIS! Cello's motorbike is a four-stroke V-twin. It's NOT a 2-stroke! >>I thought I mentioned the crank clutch side seals must be gone or was at >>least a possibility. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > NO! NO! DO NOT DO THIS! Cello's motorbike is a four-stroke V-twin. It's > NOT a 2-stroke! Whoops! I thought he was the one asking about rings in his 2 stroke. > Do you have the owner's manual for that motorbike. It will probably > tell you whether the oil light is an oil PRESSURE light or an oil LEVEL > light... All SV, TL, DL engines use oil pressure sensors. For the KK database. > I have a 97' Suzuki TL1000s, it is a good bike and has not had any > problems since I bought it four months ago, I changed oil and filters [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > -Marcelo I'm not familiar with your bike so I don't know if it's a water-cooled engine or not. If the smoke is blue then it's probably oil. If the smoke is white then it's probably water or moisture of some type. Could it be a coolant leak? Cracked engine cylinder head and/or bad gasket(s)/seal(s) maybe? The other possibility might be water and/or moisture getting into your fuel system? If your smoke is truly white, and has a sweet smell, it is antifreeze. Oil smoke is distinctly blue. Dan >I have a 97' Suzuki TL1000s, it is a good bike and has not had any >problems since I bought it four months ago, I changed oil and filters [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >-Marcelo > I have a 97' Suzuki TL1000s, it is a good bike and has not had any > problems since I bought it four months ago, I changed oil and filters [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > exhaust pipe... I turned it on again and it started to run with lots of > white smoke coming out the pipes... What happened and how do I fix? A good start would be to make sure you had exactly the right amount of oil in the engine. Overfilling it with oil can cause a number of problems such as foaming and/or pumping oil into places it's not supposed to be. If there's too much, you need to get it back to the right level. An oil pressure light is supposed to go on when the key is turned on and go off after the engine starts. If this is what you've got, this was normal behavior. I think you're in serious need of an owner's manual. Keep on winging it without one, and you're liable to pick up a couple of very expensive lessons in proper motorcycle maintenance. You may have signed yourself up for one already. > three days ago when turning the key on the bike, not > starting the bike, just turning the key the Oil light kept coming on, > after starting it would disappear, Wouldn't that be normal for an oil-pressure light? |
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