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Motorcycle Forum / General / Technical / August 2007Virago charging problem
My 1988 Virago has been having problems with the charging system recently. A few weeks ago I noticed that the battery fluid level was very low, which was my fault as it had been sitting there behind the rear cylinder for ~6 months and I forgot it should be checked (oops). When I did top it up it kept losing the charge over about a week so I thought I'd killed the battery as it tested as being charged (by the bike) at 12.8v-13.8v but it didn't seem to be holding it. I was about to buy another battery as it is now losing its charge (charged with a battery charger indoors) within a day or two, but yesterday the engine started popping and hesitating when accelerating. Thinking this might be related to the battery not keeping a charge I turned on the lights whilst riding and the popping and hesitation got much worse. I tried the horn and there was only a very faint sound from it, yet the indicators seemed to be working fine. When I got home I tested the charging system at the battery and there was nothing at all - no variation in the battery's voltage whatever the revs. I've tested the alternator's output according to my manual - there is an electrical connector with 3 white wires which are supposed to show a resistance of 0.34 and 0.42 ohms between any two and they've tested ok so the stator looks ok. Any ideas what I can try next? My manual doesn't say how to test the regulator but is it likely to be that? I thought that a regulator failure gave high voltage... Any other tests I can try?  SignatureSi - XV535 On 30 Aug, 13:40, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot" <eastREMOVEk...@gmail.com> wrote: > My 1988 Virago has been having problems with the charging system recently. A > few weeks ago I noticed that the battery fluid level was very low, which was [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > regulator but is it likely to be that? I thought that a regulator failure > gave high voltage... If the alternator is, erm, alternating, then it has to be the regulator/rectifier. Once they go pop, they're not really repairable. Not an unknown event. Go out and buy a new one (it might be pricey) and plug it in. Job done. chateau.murray@btinternet.com wrote: > If the alternator is, erm, alternating, then it has to be the > regulator/rectifier. Once they go pop, they're not really repairable. > Not an unknown event. Go out and buy a new one (it might be pricey) > and plug it in. Job done. If I could find it!! A glance at a manual is a dangerous thing. I noticed that the manual said the regulator could be mounted near the engine/driveshaft, or under the frame [1]. As I've never noticed it behind or under the frame I thought "That finned thing just below the engine must be it" and proceeded to undo the three Allen bolts holding it on. Oil started leaking out. Ho yus? Some manner of oil seal gone, is it? Got a receptacle, undid the bolts. ALL the oil came out along with the oil pump strainer. T'aint that then. Ah well, I like clean oil anyway so it's an excuse to put new stuff in. Still haven't found it. Perhaps it's actually underneath the bike? SignatureSi - XV535 [1] http://www.arcl40.dsl.pipex.com/stuff/index.html > chateau.murray@btinternet.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > If I could find it!! Underneath the bike just above the exhaust expansion chamber. FFS. SignatureSi - XV535 > [possible alternator troubles] > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Still haven't found it. Perhaps it's actually underneath the bike? My Haynes manual says: On 1987 and 1988 models, the regulator/rectifier unit us mounted on the rear underside of the frame. On 1989 and later models, it is retained to the inside of the finned cover, just to the rear of the lower left frame cover. The only illustration is for the older models and to me it looks like it's mounted at the rear end of the frame, just ahead of where the rear fender is bolted onto the frame. Good luck in actually getting there :-/ Regards & HTH, Tobias PS: My manuals "electrical section" is for XV535s only. YMMV. PPS: I've got another edition of the Haynes manual for V-twins, I can check in there, too. SignatureIn the future, everyone will be anonymous for 15 minutes. ************************************************** >My 1988 Virago has been having problems with the charging system recently. A >few weeks ago I noticed that the battery fluid level was very low, which was [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Any other tests I can try? *************************************** Make sure you have a good clean ground contact from the battery back to the system. (especially from the cable end to the engine (or frame). Wudsracer/Jim Cook Smackover Racing '06 Gas Gas DE300 '82 Husqvarna XC250 Team LAGNAF > Make sure you have a good clean ground contact from the battery back > to the system. (especially from the cable end to the engine (or > frame). Thanks, I've checked that - it took a while just to follow the cable back to where it's fixed! It doesn't look as though it's been disturbed at all but I'll have to grow some really long thin fingers to undo the connection and clean it up, just to make sure! SignatureSi - XV535 > I was about to buy > another battery as it is now losing its charge (charged with a battery > charger indoors) within a day or two, If this means: I charged it indoors and let it sit out of the bike for 2 days and it was dead........then the battery IS bad and should be replaced, regardless of what else is happening. If it means: I charged it and put it back in the bike and it was dead after 2 days, the path is not quite so clear but still likely the battery is toast. Because: "I noticed that the battery fluid level was very low" and at one point, the charging system appeared to have some output. I would install a new, fully charged battery and then test the charging system again. A (very) bad battery might be skewing the results. >> I was about to buy >> another battery as it is now losing its charge (charged with a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > was very low" and at one point, the charging system appeared to have > some output. This one. I charged it indoors for ~6 hours and it started the bike fine for a couple of days but then died again. I tested the charging voltage today, when the battery was fully charged and starting the bike easily, and it's showing no charge at all - it doesn't vary at all from idle up to lots rpm so the meter appears to be showing only the battery's voltage, which is still a little low at ~11.8v. > I would install a new, fully charged battery and then test the > charging system again. A (very) bad battery might be skewing the > results. I'll do that. I was going to buy one anyway as I've probably damaged it by letting it get dry. >>> I was about to buy >>> another battery as it is now losing its charge (charged with a [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > I'll do that. I was going to buy one anyway as I've probably damaged it by > letting it get dry. I don't have a great deal of experience in this stuff, but anyway here's my two cents about some of the questions: 1) I'd say from what's been posted so far that as yet you can't be sure the battery is too marginal to keep using. If you do buy a new battery, I would try it in the bike and then depending on the results, I might keep it as a known good test battery, trickle-charging it at least once every couple of weeks. 2) Some trickle chargers, such as the Ctek, will recover a battery that it is not too far gone, eg., somewhat sulphated. 3) Your alternator/regulator/rectifier could be acting differently at different times, depending on how hot they are. What looks good when the engine is cold may go bad when those parts heat up eg., because of increased resistance. 4) If you haven't already, you might want to take readings both when the engine is cold and hot. Mike Nixon at http://www.motorcycleproject.com has some tips about different tests, such as current, for isolating the alternator and regulator. IIRC he suggests using a multi-meter that has a 10 Amp ammeter plug and/or one of those cheap clamp DC current meters that can be bought for less than fifteen bucks. 5) Be sure to use distilled water, I think sometimes it's called de-ionized water for topping up a wet cell battery. The minerals in tap water might prevent the proper chemical reactions, alter the makeup of the plates and liquid. p <Snip> All noted, thanks. I'm just off to take the battery to brother-in-law, who has one of those miraculous chargers. SignatureSi - XV535 > This one. I charged it indoors for ~6 hours and it started the bike fine for > a couple of days but then died again. I tested the charging voltage today, > when the battery was fully charged and starting the bike easily, and it's > showing no charge at all - it doesn't vary at all from idle up to lots rpm > so the meter appears to be showing only the battery's voltage, which is > still a little low at ~11.8v. I'm sure that all the conversation to follow will be interesting.......but maybe not very useful. ;-) The above pretty much tells the story. While a new battery may not be strictly necessary at this point, it won't be money wasted. The real problem, however, is that the charging system is shot. At this point, I'd be taking it to a shop. Good luck! >> This one. I charged it indoors for ~6 hours and it started the bike >> fine for a couple of days but then died again. I tested the charging [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > At this point, I'd be taking it to a shop. > Good luck! Thanks :o) I'm going to take it to bits next week as it's been suggested that the sun might come out. I'm quite doubtful but you never know. This morning, after a good charging on a super-duper bike battery charger, it was showing charging between the appropriate voltages but when I'd switched it on and off a few times to do some tests it was showing no charge at all. For all I know it could just be a dodgy wire, or that the battery's dying and my meter's playing up! I hate 'lectrics! SignatureSi - XV535 > My manual doesn't say how to test the >regulator but is it likely to be that? I thought that a regulator failure >gave high voltage... I have never yet seen the voltage regulator part of a rectifier regulator cause high voltage. There are two reasons for that. First is the fact that permanent magnet motorcycle alternators are rather small so they cannot raise the voltage much over battery voltage. Second, if the voltage regulator circuit fails, one or two power diodes in the RR burn out right away and the voltage regulator current output is cut in half. I have discussed testing permanent magnet alternators and RR testing in this group many times, so you can google for "permanent magnet" and find out how to do the diode test. Also, go to the Electrosport USA website and study the technical support information. http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/ShowSchematic.aspx?deptId=4 23938&machineId=7911 The rectifier regulator is item #1 <The usual bollocks> http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/ShowSchematic.aspx? deptId=423938&machineId=7911 > The rectifier regulator is item #1 That's assuming he has a 1988 model (which is very early). Other (latrer) models have a different unit, in a different place, as has been mentioned. Studying schematics is not the be-all and end-all, I'm afraid. SignatureBMW K1100LT 750SS CB400F CD250 CB125 SL125 GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3 BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells..... > <The usual bollocks> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> > That's assuming he has a 1988 model (which is very early). <Mutters: It is '88, actually> > Other (latrer) models have a different unit, in a different place, as > has been mentioned. > > Studying schematics is not the be-all and end-all, I'm afraid. The bastard's right under the exhaust collector box. Typical. I can *just* touch it and it has a shiny, but dry, black patch at one end, with an associated tiny lump of very hard shiny black whatever-it-is attached to the patch. Bollocks. SignatureSi - XV535 > The bastard's right under the exhaust collector box. Typical. I can *just* > touch it and it has a shiny, but dry, black patch at one end, with an > associated tiny lump of very hard shiny black whatever-it-is attached to the > patch. Bollocks. You mentioned that you had a manual, whether it's a grubby papery one or a virtual one or both you maybe have, but just incidentally there is a virago manual 81 - 94 right now in alt.binaries.e-book.technical. >> The bastard's right under the exhaust collector box. Typical. I can >> *just* touch it and it has a shiny, but dry, black patch at one end, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > or a virtual one or both you maybe have, but just incidentally there > is a virago manual 81 - 94 right now in alt.binaries.e-book.technical. Thanks. There's been a bit of a flood since then and it's gone though. I'll have a search around. SignatureSi - XV535 |
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