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Motorcycle Forum / Country Specific / Classic (UK Group) / February 20106v electrics
Was pondering this at the weekend, why did (do?) small bikes like the mopeds of old have 6v electrics? I guess it saps more energy from the engine if its running a generator to produce higher voltage but is it significant?  Signaturejeremy K1200S >Was pondering this at the weekend, why did (do?) small bikes like the >mopeds of old have 6v electrics? Smaller, lighter, batteries. At a guess. In article <92f8l5p87638r040i0qv14dpptrbbl49b8@4ax.com>, b.rogers@ifrance.com says...> > >Was pondering this at the weekend, why did (do?) small bikes like the > >mopeds of old have 6v electrics? > > Smaller, lighter, batteries. > > At a guess. And what of those without a battery? Signaturejeremy K1200S >> Was pondering this at the weekend, why did (do?) small bikes like the >> mopeds of old have 6v electrics? > > Smaller, lighter, batteries. Except mopeds of old - and a great many small bikes - don't have batteries. It's traditional, innit? Cars used to be 6V electrics too. I wonder if it was to do with the strength of the bulb filaments. For a given wattage, a lower voltage bulb has a thicker filament so in theory should be less susceptible to road shocks. Early electric lights for bicycles have all sorts of weird suspension arrangements which suggests that shocks and vibration were something that was preying on the minds of Messrs Lucas, Miller, et al at the time. Even if it was quickly shown that they were fretting about nothing, 6V would have continued because "that's the way we make them". SignatureAndrew > Was pondering this at the weekend, why did (do?) small bikes like the > mopeds of old have 6v electrics? > > I guess it saps more energy from the engine if its running a generator > to produce higher voltage but is it significant? The total energy is measured in watts, volts times amps, so there is no difference in the load on the engine. Originally 6 volts was the standard for all bikes and cars, partly because the batteries were cheaper to make that 12 volt. Over the last 40 or so years it became cheaper to save money on copper because 12 volt systems can use thinner wiring. Signature03 GS500K2 76 Honda 400/4 project 68 Bantam D14/4 Sport (Classic) 06 Sukida SK50QT (Slanty eyed shopping trolley) Thus spake crn@nospam.netunix.com (crn@nospam.netunix.com) unto the assembled multitudes: > Originally 6 volts was the standard for all bikes and cars, partly > because the batteries were cheaper to make that 12 volt. > Over the last 40 or so years it became cheaper to save money on copper > because 12 volt systems can use thinner wiring. 6v was also once favoured by Lucas, the prince of darkness, so as to produce headlamps where the light crept apologetically out from under the headlamp nacelle, slithered weakly on to your front mudguard before falling exhausted on to the road surface about 3 feet in front of your bike. SignatureAndy Clews University of Sussex *** Remove DENTURES if replying by email *** > Thus spake crn@nospam.netunix.com (crn@nospam.netunix.com) unto the > assembled multitudes: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > exhausted > on to the road surface about 3 feet in front of your bike. But you could get decent light from a 6V system. Or can. They just didn't. SignatureHog >> Thus spake crn@nospam.netunix.com (crn@nospam.netunix.com) unto the >> assembled multitudes: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > But you could get decent light from a 6V system. Or can. They just didn't. To be honest, within the confines of its modest horsepower the 6v headlight on my GN400 is more than acceptable SignatureSteve Parry 87 BMW R80RS, 03 BMW R1100S Boxercup, 07 BMW K1200GT SE 02 Suzuki DRZ400SY-GT edition, 87 Yamaha FS1, Sukida SK90PY, 91 Kawasaki AR50, 82 Suzuki GN400, BMW 330Ci www.gwynfryn.co.uk > But you could get decent light from a 6V system. MZ certainly managed it. SignatureBMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Triumph Street Triple Honda CB400F Suzuki TS250 Suzuki GN250 chateaudotmurrayatidnetdotcom Nothing damages a machine more than an ignoramus with a manual, a can-do attitude and a set of cheap tools >Thus spake crn@nospam.netunix.com (crn@nospam.netunix.com) unto the >assembled multitudes: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >nacelle, slithered weakly on to your front mudguard before falling exhausted >on to the road surface about 3 feet in front of your bike. Don't forget Wipac. SignatureTim >>Thus spake crn@nospam.netunix.com (crn@nospam.netunix.com) unto the >>assembled multitudes: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> > Don't forget Wipac. That's the one I didn't want to be reminded of! >>> Thus spake crn@nospam.netunix.com (crn@nospam.netunix.com) unto the >>> assembled multitudes: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > That's the one I didn't want to be reminded of! 273 miles, he said, enigmatically. (Possibly) SignatureRusty > Thus spake crn@nospam.netunix.com (crn@nospam.netunix.com) unto the assembled multitudes: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > nacelle, slithered weakly on to your front mudguard before falling exhausted > on to the road surface about 3 feet in front of your bike. The Lucas motto was "Home Before Dark" >> Thus spake crn@nospam.netunix.com (crn@nospam.netunix.com) unto the >> assembled multitudes: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > The Lucas motto was "Home Before Dark" From Joseph Lucas, the man who invented darkness. SignatureRusty > From Joseph Lucas, the man who invented darkness. I've long though that Lucas is unfairly maligned by those who, ridign or driving around on a 50-year old machine, think that the electics are shite by design simply because they've survived more or less untouched by human hand for 50 years and STILL WORK, albeit not very well. When these systems were new, I rekcon they were probably among the best of the bunch. Now, after decades of zero maintence and sitting around in a damp shed, all the connectors are corroded and sap power and doubtless the generator brushes are stuck and so on. But often those old lucas bullet connectors can be rejuvenated with a bit of TLC and made to work reliably again, or at worst, you need to buy a new black rubber connector thing for them if it's fallen apart. Study the connectors in a typical jap bike half its age and you'll see they're not going to last as well: the metal parts are much smaller and thinner and just as prone to corrode and the plastic sleeving will doubtless go hard and not seal it correctly. So, rather than making cheap jokes about "Prince of darkness", consider how impressive it is that you can have a system, subjected to all manmner of abuse and crap operating conditions, which still functions *at all*... >> From Joseph Lucas, the man who invented darkness. > > I've long though that Lucas is unfairly maligned by those who, ridign or > driving around on a 50-year old machine, think that the electics are shite > by design simply because they've survived more or less untouched by human > hand for 50 years and STILL WORK, albeit not very well. That's what we used to say when I was a motorcycle mechanic around 1961/2, and what we were alluding to was stuff just of the line innit. What we said about Mr. Miller doesn't bear (not Bear) repeating - not even in here. And as for Wico-Pacy, worms fail me. SignatureRusty >> From Joseph Lucas, the man who invented darkness. > >I've long though that Lucas is unfairly maligned >When these systems were new, I rekcon they were probably among the best of >the bunch. Not so. They were still in common use on many bikes in the 1970s, by which time there were much better alternatives. Now, after decades of zero maintence and sitting around in a >damp shed, all the connectors are corroded and sap power and doubtless the >generator brushes are stuck and so on. But often those old lucas bullet [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >impressive it is that you can have a system, subjected to all manmner of >abuse and crap operating conditions, which still functions *at all*... >> From Joseph Lucas, the man who invented darkness. > > I've long though that Lucas is unfairly maligned by those who, ridign or > driving around on a 50-year old machine, think that the electics are shite > by design simply because they've survived more or less untouched by human > hand for 50 years and STILL WORK, albeit not very well. <snip> There was nothing wrong with the lighting on the 750 Commando I had years ago, I didn't like the up/down indicator switch - but that was mainly because it made it difficult to remember which way was left & right when I was pissed. Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, ian field <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> typed >There was nothing wrong with the lighting on the 750 Commando I had years >ago, I didn't like the up/down indicator switch - but that was mainly >because it made it difficult to remember which way was left & right when I >was pissed. <G> I hate that bloody thing. I still have to think about it when I'm sober. SignatureWicked Uncle Nigel - "He's hopeless, but he's honest" "Environmentally, it is our duty to re-use our plastic bags. To suffocate our children" - Frankie Boyle. > Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, ian field > <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> typed [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > <G> I hate that bloody thing. I still have to think about it when I'm > sober. One of the unforseen drawbacks of digital watches? SignatureRusty Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Rusty Hinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> typed >> Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, ian field >><gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> typed [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >One of the unforseen drawbacks of digital watches? I don't see the connection. And I have an analogue watch, FWIW. SignatureWicked Uncle Nigel - "He's hopeless, but he's honest" "Environmentally, it is our duty to re-use our plastic bags. To suffocate our children" - Frankie Boyle. > Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Rusty Hinge > <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> typed [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > I don't see the connection. And I have an analogue watch, FWIW. Think 'clockwise/anticlockwise'? SignatureRusty Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Rusty Hinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> typed >> Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Rusty Hinge >><rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> typed [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Think 'clockwise/anticlockwise'? Oh I see that. But it doesn't make the mildly f.cked-up Notrun's indicator switch any more intuitive (at least, for me). SignatureWicked Uncle Nigel - "He's hopeless, but he's honest" "Environmentally, it is our duty to re-use our plastic bags. To suffocate our children" - Frankie Boyle. /snip/ >> Think 'clockwise/anticlockwise'? > > Oh I see that. But it doesn't make the mildly f.cked-up Notrun's > indicator switch any more intuitive (at least, for me). I know what you mean - it was similar on my Trumpet aTrophy. SignatureRusty > Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Rusty Hinge > <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> typed [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > I don't see the connection. And I have an analogue watch, FWIW. Mine's a little of both. > There was nothing wrong with the lighting on the 750 Commando I had years > ago, I didn't like the up/down indicator switch - but that was mainly > because it made it difficult to remember which way was left & right when I > was pissed. My 1973 Tiger 650 was the same. I seem to recall that the indicator switch was *down* for the indicator below it, and up for "up and over" on the other side. SignatureAndy Clews University of Sussex *** Remove DENTURES if replying by email *** |
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