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Motorcycle Forum / Country Specific / UK Group / August 2007What's wrong with it then?
My SO GPZ550, that is. In low gears it runs well up to about 8000 rpm, and then misfires at 8500 rpm, won't go above that. In top gear, it runs fine up to 60mph (5500 rpm), and then stutters and slows as if it was running out of fuel, picks up again after a few seconds when the throttle is closed. With patience, it can be coaxed up to 70. Running the bike on main/reserve/prime makes no difference, fuel pours out of the tank on prime. It hasn't been used in the last few years, and when I got it, it was only firing on two cylinders. I replaced the duff spark plug (3 cylinders) and took the carbs apart and removed the gunk from the main/needle jets (4 cylinders). I've changed the oil and filter, and after a disagreement with the air filter, I put 4 individual (one per carb) K&N filters on. The carb rubbers are fine, there's petrol in the float bowls, the slides move up and down like they are meant to. I'm about to put the old air filter assembly back on for another run, but after that I'm out of ideas.  Signature"I dunno, I never met the chick." >My SO GPZ550, that is. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Running the bike on main/reserve/prime makes no difference, fuel pours >out of the tank on prime. sh.t in the carbs/ sticky float(s)/ blocked jets. Beware of concentrating your diagnostic efforts entirely on the fuel system, one or other of the coils breaking down can cause similar symptoms. >I'm about to put the old air filter assembly back on for another run, >but after that I'm out of ideas. A freer flow of air may make it run lean, especially at high revs. Signaturesteve auvache A Bloo one with built in safety features > > My SO GPZ550, that is. > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > sh.t in the carbs/ sticky float(s)/ blocked jets. The insides of the carbs now positively gleam. Plus, the spark plugs look exactly how they should, so I'm going of the carbs as the most likely culprit. > Beware of concentrating your diagnostic efforts entirely on the fuel > system, one or other of the coils breaking down can cause similar > symptoms. Hmmm, I was wondering about the coils - there's a definite rapid clicking sound when it's hesitating. > > I'm about to put the old air filter assembly back on for another > > run, but after that I'm out of ideas. > > A freer flow of air may make it run lean, especially at high revs. Couldn't get the air filter back on (engine too hot for the brute force and ignorance required) but with the K&Ns it now runs up to 90mph... Signature"I dunno, I never met the chick." >My SO GPZ550, that is. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >seconds when the throttle is closed. With patience, it can be coaxed up >to 70. Sounds like it may be a non-functioning advance-retard unit. My HBOL suggests greasing it "where fitted" every year/6000 miles, but it doesn't say which models/years are fitted with one and which are electronically controlled. What year is yours anyway? Signature_______ .'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) \`\ | /`/ DS#8 BOTAFOT#3 SbS#2 UKRMMA#13 DFV#8 SKA#2 IBB#10 `\\ | //' `\|/` ` > Sounds like it may be a non-functioning advance-retard unit. My HBOL > suggests greasing it "where fitted" every year/6000 miles, but it > doesn't say which models/years are fitted with one and which are > electronically controlled. What year is yours anyway? 1990, one of the last ones made - non-mechanical advance system. Signature"I dunno, I never met the chick." > My SO GPZ550, that is. > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > I'm about to put the old air filter assembly back on for another run, > but after that I'm out of ideas. Has yours got float valve filters? Might be worth checking them and/or any rubber o-rings/bungs you might find in there. Also, fuel filter(s). <Googles> <http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/parts/Kawasaki/GPz+550+ZX550A2L+(CA)/19 85/2366260> 14043 and, possibly, 16017 if that's an o-ring. And 92055A & B. Or a coil breaking down as Mr.Auvache says, although it sounds more to do with the carbs to me. SignatureSi - XV535 On 12 Aug, 13:33, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot" <eastREMOVEk...@gmail.com> wrote: > > My SO GPZ550, that is. > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Or a coil breaking down as Mr.Auvache says, although it sounds more to do > with the carbs to me. Or something else in the ignition - leads, plugs. As throttle opening and revs rise more voltage is needed to fire the plugs (roughly) and there is also correspondingly less time to generate the voltage. I have no idea if this is safe on a modern bike (or a person attached to a modern bike) but a decent test of the voltage generating capacity is to see how big an air gap the spark will jump. IIRC 1cm or more will I guess be OKish but I would expect more, say 2cm. It is safe on an old contacts and coil rig. My money is on fuel too. If SO rides like a woman, fouled plugs? > > Or a coil breaking down as Mr.Auvache says, although it sounds more > > to do with the carbs to me. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > needed to fire the plugs (roughly) and there is > also correspondingly less time to generate the voltage. Hmmm, I think electrics is looking more like the culprit - it's limited by revs rather than speed now I've cleaned the carbs more carefully. > I have no idea if this is safe on a modern bike (or a person > attached to a modern bike) but a decent test of the > voltage generating capacity is to see how big an air gap > the spark will jump. IIRC 1cm or more will I guess be OKish > but I would expect more, say 2cm. > It is safe on an old contacts and coil rig. I managed to electrocute myself (slightly) with it when I diagnosed the duff spark plug... a 1cm gap would take at least 30kV to spark over though... > My money is on fuel too. > If SO rides like a woman, fouled plugs? SO in this context stands for "Shite Old". It's not been run, other just being started up, for a few years. The spark plugs are (now) fine. Signature"I dunno, I never met the chick." > > I'm about to put the old air filter assembly back on for another > > run, but after that I'm out of ideas. > > Has yours got float valve filters? I'll add them to the list, cheers. Signature"I dunno, I never met the chick." >My SO GPZ550, that is. > >In low gears it runs well up to about 8000 rpm, and then misfires at >8500 rpm, won't go above that. snip> >The carb rubbers are fine, there's petrol in the float bowls, the >slides move up and down like they are meant to. When you say carb rubbers do you mean the inlet manifolds or the diaphragms? Both can cause trouble and you need to stretch the rubber a bit to see if there's any sign of perishing rather than just give it a quick visual. > When you say carb rubbers do you mean the inlet manifolds or the > diaphragms? The diaphragms, although both are fine. > Both can cause trouble and you need to stretch the rubber a bit to see > if there's any sign of perishing rather than just give it a quick > visual. Yeah, checked them properly. Signature"I dunno, I never met the chick." > I put 4 individual (one per > carb) K&N filters on. Have you jetted to suit these ? Sounds like main jets are to small SignatureTriumph SpeedMaster > > I put 4 individual (one per > > carb) K&N filters on. > > Have you jetted to suit these ? > > Sounds like main jets are to small They might be, but it feels to severe to by just running a bit lean. If the electrics turn out not to be the problem, I might go up a jet size (or more likely, get a second hand set and drill them out) and see. Signature"I dunno, I never met the chick." >They might be, but it feels to severe to by just running a bit lean. What language is that? Signature_______ .'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) \`\ | /`/ DS#8 BOTAFOT#3 SbS#2 UKRMMA#13 DFV#8 SKA#2 IBB#10 `\\ | //' `\|/` ` > > They might be, but it feels to severe to by just running a bit > > lean. > > What language is that? Very-tired-monkey-who's-only-awake-because-he-has-to-pick-his-GF-up-ese Signature"I dunno, I never met the chick." >My SO GPZ550, that is. > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >I'm about to put the old air filter assembly back on for another run, >but after that I'm out of ideas. All the problems I had with the GSX1100F (fouling plugs, running on 3, etc) where all caused by duff plug leads. I had the bike to three separate garages before "I" finally found the problem. > In low gears it runs well up to about 8000 rpm, and then misfires at > 8500 rpm, won't go above that. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > seconds when the throttle is closed. With patience, it can be coaxed up > to 70. Holed carb diaphragms. But I see you say you've checked 'em. Hm. Coils, then. SignatureBMW K1100LT 750SS CB400F CD250 SL125 GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3 BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells..... > > In low gears it runs well up to about 8000 rpm, and then misfires at > > 8500 rpm, won't go above that. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Holed carb diaphragms. But I see you say you've checked 'em. Hm. \______________________________________ \ You know, until today I didn't know there was a 'g' in that word. > Coils, then. 'new' ones on the way[2]. Took it out one more time, up to 90mph, and every time it stuttered, there was an electrical "tickatickatickaticka" from under the tank[1]. Paying really close attention to the revs when it stuttered showed them to be 7-8k in every gear. [1] top tip, when trying to work out where on ones motorcycle a noise is coming from while travelling at high speed, keep one eye on the road, I (briefly) forgot that the 329(M) curved so much... [2] Prices for *new* ones being ?80 for all 4 cylinders. Signature"I dunno, I never met the chick." >'new' ones on the way[2]. Took it out one more time, up to 90mph, and >every time it stuttered, there was an electrical "tickatickatickaticka" >from under the tank[1]. Hmm. Could be a HT lead breaking down/leaking under load too, then. SignatureChamp ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R 600 racer My advice as your attorney is to buy a motorcycle To email me, neal at my domain should work. >>'new' ones on the way[2]. Took it out one more time, up to 90mph, and >>every time it stuttered, there was an electrical "tickatickatickaticka" >>from under the tank[1]. > >Hmm. Could be a HT lead breaking down/leaking under load too, then. It is going to rain in the next couple of days. A good time for an easy diagnosis. Signaturesteve auvache A Bloo one with built in safety features > > 'new' ones on the way[2]. Took it out one more time, up to 90mph, > > and every time it stuttered, there was an electrical > > "tickatickatickaticka" from under the tank[1]. > > Hmm. Could be a HT lead breaking down/leaking under load too, then. Coming with the coils... Signature"I dunno, I never met the chick." > > > In low gears it runs well up to about 8000 rpm, and then misfires at > > > 8500 rpm, won't go above that. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > -- > "I dunno, I never met the chick." > > Coils, then. > > 'new' ones on the way[2]. Took it out one more time, up to 90mph, and > every time it stuttered, there was an electrical "tickatickatickaticka" > from under the tank[1]. Paying really close attention to the revs when > it stuttered showed them to be 7-8k in every gear. > [2] Prices for *new* ones being ?80 for all 4 cylinders. I have a pair of Dyna coils here that are up for grabs. -- Lozzo > > > Coils, then. > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I have a pair of Dyna coils here that are up for grabs. <looks forlornly at wallet> Go on then, assuming they're the right sort, how much? Signature"I dunno, I never met the chick." > > > > Coils, then. > > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Go on then, assuming they're the right sort, how much? Cheaper than OE.... SignatureBMW K1100LT 750SS CB400F CD250 SL125 GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3 BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells..... > speedys...@googlemail.com wrote: > > I have a pair of Dyna coils here that are up for grabs. > > <looks forlornly at wallet> > > Go on then, assuming they're the right sort, how much? They are for Bandit 1200/early Gixers, and the price is 40 quid the pair plus p+p, with leads but not sure how good the leads are. They are a pair of coils with twin leads on each. -- Lozzo >> speedys...@googlemail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > pair plus p+p, with leads but not sure how good the leads are. They > are a pair of coils with twin leads on each. Are the leads sealed in or replaceable? If Sim doesn't need them the Bastard12 could probably do with fat sparks. SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 > > speedys...@googlemail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > pair plus p+p, with leads but not sure how good the leads are. They > are a pair of coils with twin leads on each. Apparently I need Dyna Part# 21-7412 (2.2Ohm). But I'm going to do a darsy, and say I don't know whether or not I want them at the moment - if you've still got them at the weekend, let me know. Signature"I dunno, I never met the chick." We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Simian" <simian@in_valid.semi-evolved.org> saying something like: >But I'm going to do a darsy, and say I don't know whether or not I want >them at the moment - if you've still got them at the weekend, let me >know. Here's a quick bodge for you - clean up your old coils and stick them in the oven at 100degC for a couple of hours. This will drive out any moisture that might have found its way in through micro cracks or the lead 'oles. If it's got removeable leads, silicone seal the new leads into the coil bodies and give them a coat of varnish all over the bodies. Get new rubber boots for the leads, if you can find some. When dry, fit to bike and see if the problem has gone. This temporary cure works for years. SignatureDave GS850x2 XS650 SE6a Teach a man to fish and he and his pikey mates will have the river cleaned out in a day. >We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the >drugs began to take hold. I remember "Simian" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >moisture that might have found its way in through micro cracks or the >lead 'oles. A really neat idea but nowhere near long enough in the cooker to be guaranteed effective against anything but the moisture near the surface. Follow it with a week in a bag with a mountain of similarly ovened sicilya whatsit would be better. >If it's got removeable leads, silicone seal the new leads into the coil >bodies and give them a coat of varnish all over the bodies. Get new [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >This temporary cure works for years. How many so far? Signaturesteve auvache A Bloo one with built in safety features We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember steve auvache <dont_spam@thecow.me.uk> saying something like: >A really neat idea but nowhere near long enough in the cooker to be >guaranteed effective against anything but the moisture near the surface. >Follow it with a week in a bag with a mountain of similarly ovened >sicilya whatsit would be better. Good point, if the OP has the time to wait. First time I saw this done the coils were in the oven for 4 hours, but I thought that was a bit long, so only did it for a couple of hours on my own coils - it worked well enough. >>This temporary cure works for years. > >How many so far? At least two years after the treatment - I've still got the coils I did that to, and they only came off the bike to be replaced with ones that were supposedly higher output and a better match for the 'lecky ignition. SignatureDave GS850x2 XS650 SE6a Teach a man to fish and he and his pikey mates will have the river cleaned out in a day. > We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the > drugs began to take hold. I remember "Simian" [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > When dry, fit to bike and see if the problem has gone. Cheers, I'll give that a go as soon as it's dry. <looks out of window> 2009 probably. Signature"I dunno, I never met the chick." |
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