 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion Groups General MotorcyclesHarleyYamahaSportbikesRacingOff-roadSnowmobilesTechnicalCountry Specific Australian GroupUK GroupClassic (UK Group)Related Topics CarsBoatsMore Topics ... |
Motorcycle Forum / Country Specific / UK Group / February 2008Son down (mildly)
As he set off this morning on his newly-legal (for him) 250, I warned him: the roads are going to be icy and slippery. Five miles later, too hard a handful of front brake, and goodbye front wheel, hello nicely bloody knee, goodbye windscreen. Other damage limited, amazingly, to really minor scrapes on headlight rim and the ball end of the brake lever. Cheap naked 250s[1] rock. [1] Honda CD250, in this case.  SignatureBMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125 GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3 BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells..... chateau dot murray at idnet dot com Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, The Older Gentleman <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> typed >As he set off this morning on his newly-legal (for him) 250, I warned >him: the roads are going to be icy and slippery. > >Five miles later, too hard a handful of front brake, and goodbye front >wheel, hello nicely bloody knee, goodbye windscreen. Put a fatherly arm around his shoulder, give him a paternal hug, and whisper small words of encouragement in his ear. "Clumsy c.nt" would do nicely. SignatureWicked Uncle Nigel - "He's hopeless, but he's honest" My position was (and, to be honest, largely remains) one of complete ambiguity. > Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, The Older > Gentleman <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> typed [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > "Clumsy c.nt" would do nicely. Or "While you've been crashing, platy's daughter has been partying in Berlin. You need to raise your game." > Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, The Older > Gentleman <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> typed [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > "Clumsy c.nt" would do nicely. Eeek, I suppose a mild one early one is a learning experience but ABS would be a good next move! SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 >> Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, The Older >> Gentleman <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> typed [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Eeek, I suppose a mild early one is a learning experience It is. I ahd quite a few such learning experiences in my first few years. >but ABS would be a good next move! Don't be soft. There's only one way to learn how much grip there is, and ABS isn't it. SignatureChamp ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R 600 racer My advice as your attorney is to buy a motorcycle To email me, neal at my domain should work. >>> Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, The Older >>> Gentleman <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> typed [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Don't be soft. There's only one way to learn how much grip there is, > and ABS isn't it. That's what I've found with ABS. It does give you the confidence to find out how much more grip you actually have than you think you have. SignatureMike H GSX750F >>>> Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, The Older >>>> Gentleman <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> typed [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > It does give you the confidence to find out how much more grip you > actually have than you think you have. Oh I disagree. Riding off road is the best practice! On road ABS is an great thing. You rarely if ever need it but when your attention is diverted for a moment, the road is wet and something unexpected happens, and you grab an instant handful of lever, ABS rocks. SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 > > Eeek, I suppose a mild early one is a learning experience > > It is. I ahd quite a few such learning experiences in my first few > years. I agree. I can't remember the number of offs I had had by the time I was about 20. My GS550E crashed best. > > but ABS would be a good next move! > > Don't be soft. There's only one way to learn how much grip there is, > and ABS isn't it. Agreed. Fall off, get back on again, repeat until experience wins the day. SignatureChris >>> Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, The Older >>> Gentleman <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> typed [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Don't be soft. There's only one way to learn how much grip there is, > and ABS isn't it. To be honest I don't like the idea of abs on a bike. > To be honest I don't like the idea of abs on a bike. Why not? SignatureChris >> To be honest I don't like the idea of abs on a bike. > > Why not? Dunno really, I just don't like the idea. Prolly the over confidence thing, but it's not for me. >>> To be honest I don't like the idea of abs on a bike. >> >> Why not? > > Dunno really, I just don't like the idea. Prolly the over confidence > thing, but it's not for me. Your K1100LT had ABS. Trust me it's an excellent thing. Any time you are wondering "how slippy is this" get it upright and keep squeezing. Usually amazing how much you can apply if done progressively. It also really shown up the difference in lockup point between grabbing a panic handful and controlled application. I'm sure it has no place on a sprotbike but on a big laden fast tourer it does rock. Ducati do an advanced ABS for the late ST4S/ST3 which is sport oriented and allows 1G plus braking before lock up, so it doesn't intervene except in the most severe circumstances. Said panic measures etc. BMW OTOH do a full servo assisted linked ABS braking system on their newer bikes. It is HORRID. SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 > BMW OTOH do a full servo assisted linked ABS braking system on their > newer bikes. It is HORRID. David has that on his R1150R, and you're right, it's nasty. >> BMW OTOH do a full servo assisted linked ABS braking system on their >> newer bikes. It is HORRID. > > David has that on his R1150R, and you're right, it's nasty. I rode his in Montmort Lucy IIRC and it was indeed. Then tried an R1150RS from Hursts and a K1200 variant. Just as bad. Apparently it got better but it seems like needless technology. The ABS2 on the 1100LT with the Brembo 4 pots up front is as good as Touring bike brakes get and better than the standard GSXR1000K1/2 by far. SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 >>> BMW OTOH do a full servo assisted linked ABS braking system on their >>> newer bikes. It is HORRID. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > 1100LT with the Brembo 4 pots up front is as good as Touring bike > brakes get and better than the standard GSXR1000K1/2 by far. I've ridden it a few times, and got to the stage where I just stopped bothering with it. He's used to it, but he's had it for nearly seven years now. I like the oilheads, but I'd have to go for an 1100 if I was going to get one. >>>> BMW OTOH do a full servo assisted linked ABS braking system on >>>> their newer bikes. It is HORRID. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > years now. I like the oilheads, but I'd have to go for an 1100 if I > was going to get one. The early 1150s have ABS2. IIRC the horrid servo assisted system that tried to kill Timo didn't come along until 2002. My W reg 1150 has ABS2. Currently not working, awaiting a tuit to take it to Bristol or Stroud to plug it into the diagnostic gizmo. Could be a £60 sensor or a £1200 ABS servo unit[1] I've done about 3000 miles without the ABS working. Can't say I've missed it. I don't even notice the red warning lights any more. [1] aka the "no f.cking chance am I buying that" unit Signaturewessie at tesco dot net BMW R1150GS >>>>> BMW OTOH do a full servo assisted linked ABS braking system on >>>>> their newer bikes. It is HORRID. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > The early 1150s have ABS2. IIRC the horrid servo assisted system that > tried to kill Timo didn't come along until 2002. David's bike was new in 2001 - he had it on the first Caudebec run. > My W reg 1150 has ABS2. Currently not working, awaiting a tuit to > take it to Bristol or Stroud to plug it into the diagnostic gizmo. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > [1] aka the "no f.cking chance am I buying that" unit This is something that irks me - bikes with hugely expensive extras to go wrong, especially when it's sh.t like Evo brakes. If I ever get another BMW, it'll probably be an R100/7. snip> >This is something that irks me - bikes with hugely expensive extras to go >wrong, especially when it's sh.t like Evo brakes. If I ever get another >BMW, it'll probably be an R100/7. Judging by the prices that older (25 years old or more) boxers are going for a lot of people agree with you. I'd still like a half decent R100RS but they're fetching stupid money and even a rough R90S is way out of my price band for a winter hack. > snip> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I'd still like a half decent R100RS but they're fetching stupid money > and even a rough R90S is way out of my price band for a winter hack. R90S have been out of winter hack territory for a long time and only a heathen would use one as such. For starters I don't think the Italian carbs would take to nicely to the shite on the roads. SignatureMorini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport | 900SSD | R1150RT Laverda SF2 | Harley FXD BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10 The UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/index.html "Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar >> snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >R90S have been out of winter hack territory for a long time and only a >heathen would use one as such. They're old bikes so they're winter hacks. Expensive and very nice winter hacks but that doesn't mean they're something different. >For starters I don't think the Italian carbs would take to nicely to the >shite on the roads. I wouldn't want to go far on it, maybe to Germany once a year. I wanted an R90S when they first came out in the '70s and they're still a lovely bike to look at even if they're tired old beasts now. It's a shame that BMW didn't bring out something similar to keep the line going over the next few years but I think the price would have scared most people away. > R90S have been out of winter hack territory for a long time and only a > heathen would use one as such. > > For starters I don't think the Italian carbs would take to nicely to the > shite on the roads. I thought an R90 used Bings from Germany. SignatureEiron. > > R90S have been out of winter hack territory for a long time and only a > > heathen would use one as such. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I thought an R90 used Bings from Germany. The S used gurt great 36mm pumper Dell' Ortos. Same as on the early Guzzi Le Mans. SignatureBMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125 GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3 BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells..... chateau dot murray at idnet dot com > > > For starters I don't think the Italian carbs would take to nicely > > > to the shite on the roads. Eh? > > I thought an R90 used Bings from Germany. > > The S used gurt great 36mm pumper Dell' Ortos. Same as on the early > Guzzi Le Mans. My particular example uses the 40mm Dell' Ortos. The only problem I have is the need to stop from time to time to pull small children out of the bellmouths. SignatureSimon >> R90S have been out of winter hack territory for a long time and only a >> heathen would use one as such. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I thought an R90 used Bings from Germany. They did. As TOG pointed out, with the exception of the 'S'... SignatureMorini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport | 900SSD | R1150RT Laverda SF2 | Harley FXD BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10 The UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/index.html "Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar > snip> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I'd still like a half decent R100RS but they're fetching stupid money > and even a rough R90S is way out of my price band for a winter hack. <looks at sig> I've been using the RS for a couple of days after getting it back from the IoM. It is just so comfortable, the fairing is amazing and it keeps my feet and calfs warm. The Hawker Odyssey battery fired it up first time after sitting at the IoM airport for 7 months. All I did was drain the bowls first. Once the discs were cleaned off and the tyres given 4psi both ends it was back to normal. Like most Beemers it is undergeared in top and 100mph is way too close to the red line, cruising has to be 85. You won't get a good low miles RS Mono under 2 grand. Plenty older models around but they handle less well and have too many maintenance niggles for my liking. A K100RS is probably a better hack, certainly cheaper, it just needs that fairing! SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 > snip> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I'd still like a half decent R100RS but they're fetching stupid money > and even a rough R90S is way out of my price band for a winter hack. Try a K1100LT like mine. I'm still impressed that a 15 year-old bike can be so bloody good at what it does. Cheap to run, as well. SignatureBMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125 GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3 BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells..... chateau dot murray at idnet dot com >> snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Try a K1100LT like mine. I'm still impressed that a 15 year-old bike can >be so bloody good at what it does. Cheap to run, as well. I'm quite happy with my manky old K100RS at the moment. My wanting an old R100 is more to do with owning one previously and not quite understanding that things have moved on a long way since then. >>>>> BMW OTOH do a full servo assisted linked ABS braking system on >>>>> their newer bikes. It is HORRID. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > The early 1150s have ABS2. IIRC the horrid servo assisted system that tried > to kill Timo didn't come along until 2002. That'll be, like, on a Y-plate, right? Like my RT...[1]. Actually the one on the RT is different to the one on the GS - it was the GS that switched off its rear brake servo... In contrast to what a lot of people here (and the usual suspect journos) say, I don't find the linked servo brakes on the RT too bad. But then I've never been bothered too much by linked brakes after having a Guzzi with them, but I agree that the rear brake actuation could've done with a bit of fine tuning. I think the description I read on the boxer forum once sums it up nicely - it's like dropping an anchor... > My W reg 1150 has ABS2. Currently not working, awaiting a tuit to take it > to Bristol or Stroud to plug it into the diagnostic gizmo. Could be a £60 > sensor or a £1200 ABS servo unit[1] Oh joy. I'm sure there are cheaper second hand ones around btw. > I've done about 3000 miles without the ABS working. Can't say I've missed > it. I don't even notice the red warning lights any more. I've rarely had the ABS cut in on my BMWs - in fact I can only remember one occurrence in the past few years. And I was bloody glad it worked then on a greasy road, otherwise I'd have ended up either on the side or in the side of the ambulance that shot out behind a lorry... SignatureMorini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport | 900SSD | R1150RT Laverda SF2 | Harley FXD BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10 The UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/index.html "Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar >> The early 1150s have ABS2. IIRC the horrid servo assisted system >> that tried to kill Timo didn't come along until 2002. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > read on the boxer forum once sums it up nicely - it's like dropping > an anchor... It isn't really the linking I didn't like, though I never want that on a bike (1), but the sudden and over eager application the servo introduces. Servo brakes on a bike are an insane idea, completely unecessary. (1) I have no idea why anyone would want the loss of control input linked brakes introduce SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 >>> The early 1150s have ABS2. IIRC the horrid servo assisted system >>> that tried to kill Timo didn't come along until 2002. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > bike (1), but the sudden and over eager application the servo > introduces. That's partially true for the fully linked system on the RT but I didn't find it too bad on the GSA. I think there's a modification out there for the RT to make it less abrupt. > Servo brakes on a bike are an insane idea, completely unecessary. Possibly, but then again people have been saying this about ABS, disk brakes, brakes in the front wheel etc as well. While I wouldn't buy a bike simply because it had servo brakes or linked brakes, I don't mind them. > (1) I have no idea why anyone would want the loss of control input linked > brakes introduce Not all of us are superheros on those lardy old barges... SignatureMorini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport | 900SSD | R1150RT Laverda SF2 | Harley FXD BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10 The UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/index.html "Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar >>>> The early 1150s have ABS2. IIRC the horrid servo assisted system >>>> that tried to kill Timo didn't come along until 2002. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > While I wouldn't buy a bike simply because it had servo brakes or > linked brakes, I don't mind them. But technology should contribute something or it's extra weight and cost for nothing. Even a 6 y'o child can apply enough strength to make good motorcycle brakes squeal the tyres. >> (1) I have no idea why anyone would want the loss of control input >> linked brakes introduce > > Not all of us are superheros on those lardy old barges... Ride on ice/snow/gravel with linked brakes! SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 >> Possibly, but then again people have been saying this about ABS, disk >> brakes, brakes in the front wheel etc as well. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > nothing. Even a 6 y'o child can apply enough strength to make good > motorcycle brakes squeal the tyres. Yes, but weren't we talking about BMW brakes? >>> (1) I have no idea why anyone would want the loss of control input >>> linked brakes introduce >> >> Not all of us are superheros on those lardy old barges... > > Ride on ice/snow/gravel with linked brakes! Done the gravel bit with partially linked brakes, didn't find that too offensive. I'm not attempting this with the RT if I can help it, mind. SignatureMorini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport | 900SSD | R1150RT Laverda SF2 | Harley FXD BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10 The UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/index.html "Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar >>> Possibly, but then again people have been saying this about ABS, >>> disk brakes, brakes in the front wheel etc as well. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Yes, but weren't we talking about BMW brakes? Which have been excellent since about 1987 IIRC!! SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 >> Yes, but weren't we talking about BMW brakes? > >Which have been excellent since about 1987 IIRC!! Hmmm, My 91 R100RT (Mono) has probably the worst back (drum) brake of any bike I've ever owned, including the NSU Quickly and the 350 Madras Bullet! Different rear shoes and even a new wheel made little difference. However, the fronts are ok and even the rear can be persuaded to make the rear tyre leave a feint black stripe down the road (the stupid woman in the car in front decides to stop fast AND reverse towards me just because a coach was filling the entire road ahead <sigh>. She should have known I was 'enjoying' the Cornish roads, was two up, fully loaded and towing a trailer ... ). GWS to TOG Jnr, especially relevant as my 17yr old has just started out on her 125 Skipper and may move onto my CB250 when she takes her test. All the best .. T i m >>> Yes, but weren't we talking about BMW brakes? >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Different rear shoes and even a new wheel made little difference. <looks at sig> My RS has a perfectly adequate rear brake which has never given me a moments thought! SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 >My RS has a perfectly adequate rear brake which has never given me a moments >thought! Is that a disk on the rear of an RS though? Ok, I'd say my rear brake is 'adequate', it just isn't as good as most other bikes I've ridden and maybe that's why I question it? The only other bike I've ridden with a worse rear was my mates 1350 FLXLVXLFLX Harley .. (and I really thought the rear brake was disconnected!) :-( All the best .. T i m >> My RS has a perfectly adequate rear brake which has never given me a >> moments thought! [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > All the best .. No it's a drum and should be identical. It is not overly powerful. I like it that way. SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 >>> My RS has a perfectly adequate rear brake which has never given me a >>> moments thought! [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >No it's a drum and should be identical. It is not overly powerful. I like >it that way. Ah, ok, and that could also be down to how heavy your right foot is (and what else it's used to)? Like when I get out of my old 218SD Rover and get into Dad's Meriva I'm initially pulling up way too sharply! With the RT, stick 150kg of trailer on the back and it becomes less adequate (safe but much harder work) and certainly in comparison to the same thing on the back of her XV750. All the best .. T i m p.s. Quite looking forward to getting the CB 'Two Fifty' back on the road .. not ridden something that feels 'revvy' for a while (or ever really). >>>> My RS has a perfectly adequate rear brake which has never given me >>>> a moments thought! [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > adequate (safe but much harder work) and certainly in comparison to > the same thing on the back of her XV750. To be fair, I've never towed a trailer on a solo motorcycle. I imagine BMW intended the back brake to be nicely balanced for operation with loads ranging from rider only up to rider and pillion plus luggage. Adding 150kg is effectively the same as two more pillions - no wonder the poor thing is struggling. >> With the RT, stick 150kg of trailer on the back and it becomes less >> adequate (safe but much harder work) and certainly in comparison to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >intended the back brake to be nicely balanced for operation with loads >ranging from rider only up to rider and pillion plus luggage. Hmm. So, would you describe all the other bikes that have better[1] rear brakes as 'unbalanced'? > Adding 150kg >is effectively the same as two more pillions - no wonder the poor thing is >struggling. Well, the case with the trailer maybe yes (other than the XV750 dealing with it ok) but it's still not 'good' without the trailer (from my pov anyway). Anyroadup, as I mentioned previously the 900 Divvy I borrowed from the local bike shop for a week (with the idea of one replacing the RT and also had a very good rear brake) went back hardly ridden because it had no character, so the old girl stays. ;-) All the best .. T i m >>> With the RT, stick 150kg of trailer on the back and it becomes less >>> adequate (safe but much harder work) and certainly in comparison to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Hmm. So, would you describe all the other bikes that have better[1] > rear brakes as 'unbalanced'? Normally, you don't need a monstrously powerful rear brake, because you'll either be using the front on its own, or both brakes together. Also, it's a single-leading-shoe drum. If it was TLS, it would be great going forward, and almost entirely ineffective going backwards. It's a compromise. It wasn't designed to stop a trailer. >> Adding 150kg >> is effectively the same as two more pillions - no wonder the poor [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > dealing with it ok) but it's still not 'good' without the trailer > (from my pov anyway). Cruisers tend to see harder rear brake use anyway. On my Drifter, I got through rear pads faster than fronts. Do you actually use your fronts much on the RT, or is there a recommended trailer technique? > Anyroadup, as I mentioned previously the 900 Divvy I borrowed from the > local bike shop for a week (with the idea of one replacing the RT and > also had a very good rear brake) went back hardly ridden because it > had no character, so the old girl stays. ;-) The Divvy has a disc rear. >> Hmm. So, would you describe all the other bikes that have better[1] >> rear brakes as 'unbalanced'? > >Normally, you don't need a monstrously powerful rear brake, because you'll >either be using the front on its own, or both brakes together. Understood. > Also, it's a >single-leading-shoe drum. If it was TLS, it would be great going forward, >and almost entirely ineffective going backwards. It's a compromise. The backwards bit would be for holding the bike on hills / ramps etc? >It >wasn't designed to stop a trailer. Understood and I'm not expecting it to do so with 'ease' but even without the trailer the rear brake has never been what I would describe as even 'good'. Ok yes, good, not really. >> Well, the case with the trailer maybe yes (other than the XV750 >> dealing with it ok) but it's still not 'good' without the trailer >> (from my pov anyway). > >Cruisers tend to see harder rear brake use anyway. On my Drifter, I got >through rear pads faster than fronts. Ok, well that might explain why the XV750 is so much better then. > Do you actually use your fronts much >on the RT, or is there a recommended trailer technique? I generally use the front with the rear and am aware most of the stopping power is with the front. Not just because of it being twin disk but general weight distribution. When towing we are normally also fully laden and two up so *could* use the rear more .. but there isn't any 'more'. >> Anyroadup, as I mentioned previously the 900 Divvy I borrowed from the >> local bike shop for a week (with the idea of one replacing the RT and >> also had a very good rear brake) went back hardly ridden because it >> had no character, so the old girl stays. ;-) > >The Divvy has a disc rear. As I guessed it might be. ;-) Maybe the Airhead riders here are lucky in that their rear brakes are good ones somehow. There are also many riders on the various Airhead / general BM lists / groups / clubs that seem to agree with my findings and that the rear is (can be?) more of a holding than stopping brake? Like I said, I have ridden a fair few 'basic' bikes in my time, bikes that aren't particularly known to be over braked but I have never felt the rear as lacking (being able to lock all the others without to much effort) as I do with this RT. Before the mono I had an old R100RT twinshock (done up as a 90S by the po) for a couple of months and even though it later transpired the rear caliper was partly seized it was still more like what I'd expect a rear brake to be! I'm not saying having some form of efficiency related ABS on the rear is always a bad thing but personally I'd prefer to have the choice of being able to lock the rear wheel (especially under heavy braking) and let my skill and experience (however small <g>) manage the situation at that point. Maybe if the rear could do it's share easier I might not get into a situation in the first place? My point is, if I got off the BM and got on the MZ ETZ 251 Saxon Tour, the CB 250, the 350 Bullet or her XV750 Virago I ended up over braking on the rear for the first couple of stops because they were so much lighter and could lock the rear wheel without me putting all 6'2" and 16st on the pedal ??? :-( Not a problem though, I can cope, but if there was anything I could change on the old girl, that would be it. All the best .. T i m > Maybe the Airhead riders here are lucky in that their rear brakes are > good ones somehow. There are also many riders on the various Airhead / [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > lighter and could lock the rear wheel without me putting all 6'2" and > 16st on the pedal ??? :-( It sounds like your back brake is fuct. The standard BMW back brake is competent. If you've tried new shoes and wheel, the next place to look at is setup. Who has worked on the brake, and would you consider them competent? >> My point is, if I got off the BM and got on the MZ ETZ 251 Saxon Tour, >> the CB 250, the 350 Bullet or her XV750 Virago I ended up over braking [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >It sounds like your back brake is fuct. Oh? :-( >The standard BMW back brake is >competent. Well, I think the jury might be out on that in some quarters (and not just mine) ;-) > If you've tried new shoes and wheel, the next place to look at >is setup. Who has worked on the brake, and would you consider them >competent? Me and reasonably yes (have done my all my own vehicle maintenance, always. Built a kit car 18 years ago and it's still running etc etc). I fitted the modified one way clutch spring in my ex wifes C50LA (3 speed fully automatic) because my local shop didn't fancy the job at the time (it was like a Swiss watch in there!) ;-) It's hardly rocket science in there. New shoes (at least 3 different 'brands') and never contaminated during installation (never handled with greasy hands). All pivots and linkages clean properly lubed and free moving. All actions set at 90 deg etc. Brake light comes on half way between pedal at rest and the brake actually starting to touch etc. On that note the brake light switch is a bugger to get to, up inside the rhs rear frame and beside the monolever, often covered in shite and therefore can fail easily. I fabricated a removable bracket in stainless so the whole switch assembly could be dropped out easily for servicing. It doesn't impact on the brake action. I replaced the rear wheel for three reasons. Firstly I gathered a slight 'dent' in the rim curtsey of a fairly large pothole somewhere (it even shook one touring pannier lid open). Secondly there were some strange pits (possibly either some form of corrosion or more probably some impurities in the steel in the original steel drum insert ( BMW did inspect it but didn't feel it warranted replacing .. but then they weren't riding it ..) and lastly because it gave me a chance to start with a new drum and shoes to see if it would improve the braking efficiency (it didn't). All the best .. T i m >>My RS has a perfectly adequate rear brake which has never given me a moments >>thought! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > FLXLVXLFLX Harley .. (and I really thought the rear brake was > disconnected!) :-( That's bad, because on these you *really* need the rear brake. SignatureMorini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport | 900SSD | R1150RT Laverda SF2 | Harley FXD BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10 The UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/index.html "Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar >>>> Yes, but weren't we talking about BMW brakes? >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > My RS has a perfectly adequate rear brake which has never given me a > moments thought! I've owned two R100/7s and an R80RT mono, and the back brakes on all of them were perfectly adequate. >> My RS has a perfectly adequate rear brake which has never given me a >> moments thought! > >I've owned two R100/7s and an R80RT mono, and the back brakes on all of them >were perfectly adequate. Hmmm, ok, let me rephrase this just to see if it's just me (or my bike). Although the rear brake on my 35k 91 RT seems to work, it seems it might take much more (much) pressure to make it work than any bike I've owned before? All the best .. T i m >>> (1) I have no idea why anyone would want the loss of control input >>> linked brakes introduce >> >> Not all of us are superheros on those lardy old barges... > >Ride on ice/snow/gravel with linked brakes! Done that. Next question? >>>> (1) I have no idea why anyone would want the loss of control input >>>> linked brakes introduce [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Done that. Next question? Yes but you do lots of crazy stuff anyway SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 snip> >Not all of us are superheros on those lardy old barges... I didn't find the K100 as much of a problem as I expected to when it chucked down snow in Germany but it's a big old unit when you're having to use your feet as skis. I've not found it too much of an issue to throw it around through bends over here but I was brought riding barges and it's like going back to my youth again when it starts to wallow when you nail it on twisty roads. > > To be honest I don't like the idea of abs on a bike. > > Why not? > > -- > Chris With ABS if you're coming down a slippery slope, you've got No brakes unless you can switch it off like BMW. I've just gotten a car with ABS which I hate, It'll sail thru an intersection, refusing traction rather than trying to find some, we have serious winter here(Canada). I feel safer and stop better in my car that doesn't have ABS. bg >>> To be honest I don't like the idea of abs on a bike. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > have serious winter here(Canada). > I feel safer and stop better in my car that doesn't have ABS. What a load of utter utter shite. In deep snow it might (occasionally) be better to lock the wheels and push up snow in front on the tyres. How many days of the year do you think we drive or ride in deep snow? SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 > ottg...@hotmail.com wrote: > >>> To be honest I don't like the idea of abs on a bike. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I can only speak from my experience this winter, deep snow is OK there's traction, but on Slush there's none and the ABS vehicle just won't stop till it's ready. Same if you're off road coming down a muddy slope. Without ABS I can feel or look for traction . If I'm on a road that's Iced up (Black Ice), in my non ABS car I can drive with one side of the car on the Ice and put 2 wheels in the snow on the shoulder and get some traction, but that doesn't happen with my ABS Honda, I have to get All wheels in the snow to stop. I haven't had any issues with winter driving in Canada in 30 years, until this ABS equiped rig. Ther's a reason the BMW Bike have an ABS off-switch for coming donw hills when off-road etc. Bg On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 06:31:27 -0800 (PST), in <63dc8019-1f19-49b9-83bc-43539607711b@n75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, >> > To be honest I don't like the idea of abs on a bike. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >With ABS if you're coming down a slippery slope, you've got No brakes >unless you can switch it off like BMW. What rubbish. Perhaps you'd care to explain why you believe that you have 'No brakes'? >I've just gotten a car with ABS which I hate, It'll sail thru an >intersection, refusing traction rather than trying to find some, we >have serious winter here(Canada). You're clearly not a very good driver then. If the ABS isn't going to be able to stop you, you're not going to be able to stop it manually either, so you need a better understanding of available grip and appropriate speeds. >I feel safer and stop better in my car that doesn't have ABS. I drive in snowy conditions for much of the winter (here in Switzerland, as well as several weeks in BC/Alberta in recent years) and can state most assuredly that ABS works very well indeed on slippery surfaces, especially when combined with 4wd and traction control. Signature_______ .'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com) \`\ | /`/ DS#8 BOTAFOT#3 SbS#2 UKRMMA#13 DFV#8 SKA#2 IBB#10 `\\ | //' `\|/` ` > I drive in snowy conditions for much of the winter (here in > Switzerland, as well as several weeks in BC/Alberta in recent years) > and can state most assuredly that ABS works very well indeed on > slippery surfaces, especially when combined with 4wd and traction > control. Canada, like America without any of the benefits and added French c.nts. SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 >> I drive in snowy conditions for much of the winter (here in >> Switzerland, as well as several weeks in BC/Alberta in recent years) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Canada, like America without any of the benefits and added French c.nts. I'd say Canada is like America without any of the drawbacks. And it's easy enough to avoid French Canucks - just go west. SignatureChamp I don't know, but I been told, you never slow down, you never get old ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R600 (race) neal at champ dot org dot uk On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:35:36 +0000, in <55lds3drpsh5mkf90a9nusqd6uid0asrl6@4ax.com>, Champ <news@champ.org.uk> wrote: >>Canada, like America without any of the benefits and added French c.nts. > >I'd say Canada is like America without any of the drawbacks. Absolutely. No (or not too many) americans, for a start. And they actually have a clue about food as well. >And it's easy enough to avoid French Canucks Not sure what's wrong wiv 'em anyway, TBH. Signature_______ .'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com) \`\ | /`/ DS#8 BOTAFOT#3 SbS#2 UKRMMA#13 DFV#8 SKA#2 IBB#10 `\\ | //' `\|/` ` >>And it's easy enough to avoid French Canucks > >Not sure what's wrong wiv 'em anyway, TBH. They've got an even bigger chip on their shoulder than euro frenchies :-) SignatureChamp I don't know, but I been told, you never slow down, you never get old ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R600 (race) neal at champ dot org dot uk On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:52:56 +0000, in <v5mds35089ifr793jcg1asjevqmr1dl44e@4ax.com>, Champ <news@champ.org.uk> wrote: >>>And it's easy enough to avoid French Canucks >> >>Not sure what's wrong wiv 'em anyway, TBH. > >They've got an even bigger chip on their shoulder than euro frenchies >:-) But the real frogs regard them as inferior in a big way. I remember being in a (real) French restaurant in Montreal one time, where the waiter assumed from my accent (speaking French to him, of course) that I was local, and gave me the snooty treatment the North Americans seem to think is typical of the French. Then he told me the wine I'd ordered was unavailable and recommended another one of a similar type, only to be utterly flabbergasted when I said I'd ridden through the village it came from on my way to or from one of our ukrm trips. Once he found I actually lived here, his manner changed completely into a much more friendly mode, much to the annoyance of other Canadians sitting nearby :-) Signature_______ .'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com) \`\ | /`/ DS#8 BOTAFOT#3 SbS#2 UKRMMA#13 DFV#8 SKA#2 IBB#10 `\\ | //' `\|/` ` >>> And it's easy enough to avoid French Canucks >> >> Not sure what's wrong wiv 'em anyway, TBH. > > They've got an even bigger chip on their shoulder than euro frenchies > :-) Well at least the Eskimos slap them down when they get stroppy. SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 > On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:35:36 +0000, in > <55lds3drpsh5mkf90a9nusqd6uid0asrl6@4ax.com>, Champ [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Not sure what's wrong wiv 'em anyway, TBH. I always found them to be a bit more relaxed than the Anglophones. >>> I drive in snowy conditions for much of the winter (here in >>> Switzerland, as well as several weeks in BC/Alberta in recent years) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I'd say Canada is like America without any of the drawbacks. And it's > easy enough to avoid French Canucks - just go west. I've spent more time there and have more rellies than you I assume then! Backwards socialist pseudo bhal c.nts, every last elk of them, well until it comes to forest destruction. BC is breathtakingly gorgeous though. SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 >>>> I drive in snowy conditions for much of the winter (here in >>>> Switzerland, as well as several weeks in BC/Alberta in recent years) [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >BC is breathtakingly gorgeous though. Indeed BC is wonderful. I can vouch for the Yukon too. SignatureTim http://www.pitfieldbeershop.co.uk/ > BC is breathtakingly gorgeous though. > > -- > Hog BC, Where they are also Clear-cutting the forests, but leave a certain amount of trees by the road, so that passers-by can't see what's really goin on! BC's still a beaut tho. Bg >> I drive in snowy conditions for much of the winter (here in >> Switzerland, as well as several weeks in BC/Alberta in recent years) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Canada, like America without any of the benefits and added French c.nts. "Canada could have enjoyed: English government, French culture and American know-how. Instead it ended up with: English know-how, French government and American culture." >>> I drive in snowy conditions for much of the winter (here in >>> Switzerland, as well as several weeks in BC/Alberta in recent years) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > American know-how. Instead it ended up with: English know-how, > French government and American culture." That's actually rather good ;o) SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 >> "Canada could have enjoyed: English government, French culture and >> American know-how. Instead it ended up with: English know-how, >> French government and American culture." > > That's actually rather good ;o) John Robert Colombo, whoever he is. <checks> "Canadian poet, editor and humourist". Americans are benevolently ignorant about Canada, while Canadians are malevolently well informed about the United States. J. Bartlett Brebner [professor of history at Columbia] >> Canada, like America without any of the benefits and added French c.nts. > >"Canada could have enjoyed: English government, French culture and American >know-how. Instead it ended up with: English know-how, French government and >American culture." Haven't trotted this out for a while: In Heaven, the policemen will be English, the mechanics will be German, the chefs will be French, the lovers will be Italian, and it will all be organised by the Swiss. In Hell, the policemen will be German, the mechanics will be French, the chefs will be English, the lovers will be Swiss and it will all be organised by the Italians. SignatureChamp I don't know, but I been told, you never slow down, you never get old ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R600 (race) neal at champ dot org dot uk >>> Canada, like America without any of the benefits and added French >>> c.nts. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the chefs will be English, the lovers will be Swiss and it will all be > organised by the Italians. That got a chuckle out of me. It's out of date though. The English became good chefs and sh.t policemen. SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 > > In Heaven, the policemen will be English, the mechanics will be > > German, the chefs will be French, the lovers will be Italian, and it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > That got a chuckle out of me. > It's out of date though. The English became good chefs and sh.t policemen. for english values of good. sir jamie, you are hereby accused of using taxpayers' money to plug your crappy foodmixing product during primetime when the slobbering tv-slaves are not yet completely binge-plastered and may be able to locate their ripoff credit cards. how do you plead? Signaturedog sl1000 two#5 pwcram#3 >>> In Heaven, the policemen will be English, the mechanics will be >>> German, the chefs will be French, the lovers will be Italian, and it [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > tv-slaves are not yet completely binge-plastered and may be able to > locate their ripoff credit cards. how do you plead? Who? Rick Stein is more my kind of food. SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 > "Canada could have enjoyed: English government, French culture and American > know-how. Instead it ended up with: English know-how, French government and > American culture." Heh, I'm Canuck, and I like that :-) Bg > Five miles later, too hard a handful of front brake, and goodbye front > wheel, hello nicely bloody knee, goodbye windscreen. Oops. GWS. SignatureChristofire DIAABTCOD#1 DS#9 ZX-10R In news:1icw1lo.1q1yr2u1p2fyahN%totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk, The Older Gentleman <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> wibbled > As he set off this morning on his newly-legal (for him) 250, I warned > him: the roads are going to be icy and slippery. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > [1] Honda CD250, in this case. Rite of passage ;) GWS that lad SignatureSteve Parry 07 K1200GT SE 95 BMW F650 87 Yamaha FS1 Sukida SK90PY 91 Kawasaki AR50 07 VW Passat SE Estate for comfort www.gwynfryn.co.uk > As he set off this morning on his newly-legal (for him) 250, I warned > him: the roads are going to be icy and slippery. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Other damage limited, amazingly, to really minor scrapes on headlight > rim and the ball end of the brake lever. Cheap naked 250s[1] rock. Tell him I've got a first aid certificate and a couple of days off work. I'm sure he will feel better pretty rapidly... Signaturewessie at tesco dot net BMW R1150GS > As he set off this morning on his newly-legal (for him) 250, I warned > him: the roads are going to be icy and slippery. > > Five miles later, too hard a handful of front brake They all do that, sir. > [1] Honda CD250, in this case. But how the f.ck does someone grab too much front brake on THAT? Signatureogden sv650 & rgv250 >> As he set off this morning on his newly-legal (for him) 250, I warned >> him: the roads are going to be icy and slippery. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >But how the f.ck does someone grab too much front brake on THAT? I managed to lock the front wheel (okay, in the wet) on my CG125 (makes Sign of Holy Pushrods) and lunch the thing. The bars were a good few degrees out from true afterwards; Dad kicked it straight for me though. SignatureDarren GSF1200N K3 Feeling F.I.N.E. > I managed to lock the front wheel (okay, in the wet) on my CG125 > (makes Sign of Holy Pushrods) and lunch the thing. The bars were a > good few degrees out from true afterwards; Dad kicked it straight for > me though. I managed to ride both my bikes today without incident. This may be a record. They're both clean(ish), too. The RGV could do with some less-wanky brakes - for something that only weighs 140kg or so (dry), it takes a good handful to get any effect, whereas even glancing in the general direction of the front brake lever on the SV is like hitting a brick wall. Between that and what might be the iffy choke, I foresee some serious time spent f.cking things up in the garage. Signatureogden sv650 & rgv250 >> I managed to lock the front wheel (okay, in the wet) on my CG125 >> (makes Sign of Holy Pushrods) and lunch the thing. The bars were a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Between that and what might be the iffy choke, I foresee some serious >time spent f.cking things up in the garage. If I were to attempt such a thing, "f.cking things up" would be the only possible outcome, which is why I don't... SignatureDarren GSF1200N K3 Feeling F.I.N.E. In communiqué <7cj6s31ki83bcvn6i75htnpkt21fbf614b@4ax.com>, DR <bluebandit@talktalk.net.invalid> cast forth these pearls of wisdom >>> As he set off this morning on his newly-legal (for him) 250, I warned >>> him: the roads are going to be icy and slippery. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >good few degrees out from true afterwards; Dad kicked it straight for >me though. Indeed. Even "tobacco tin" brakes will easily induce a stick in the wheel effect on ice. DAMHIKIJD. GWS TOG junior. Signature+----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pete Fisher at Home: Peter@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk | | Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest * 2 Yamaha WR250Z | | Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ > > As he set off this morning on his newly-legal (for him) 250, I warned > > him: the roads are going to be icy and slippery. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > But how the f.ck does someone grab too much front brake on THAT? Tandem piston front caliper, believe it or not. None of your old Benly single leading shoe drum front brakes on this baby. SignatureBMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125 GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3 BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells..... chateau dot murray at idnet dot com >> > [1] Honda CD250, in this case. >> >> But how the f.ck does someone grab too much front brake on THAT? > >Tandem piston front caliper, believe it or not. Better than OEM brakes on the CBX, then. > As he set off this morning on his newly-legal (for him) 250, I warned > him: the roads are going to be icy and slippery. > > Five miles later, too hard a handful of front brake, and goodbye front > wheel, hello nicely bloody knee, goodbye windscreen. I thought that 'down (mildly)' was going to be like 'As virtuous men passe mildly away.' Fortunately it isn't. SignatureEiron. >As he set off this morning on his newly-legal (for him) 250, I warned >him: the roads are going to be icy and slippery. That's what did it. GWS TOG junior. SignatureLady Nina > As he set off this morning on his newly-legal (for him) 250, I warned > him: the roads are going to be icy and slippery. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > [1] Honda CD250, in this case. C'est le métier qui rentre, as we say here. SignatureBd. o.f.n.u.t.s@la.poste.net (drop dots except last) TDM850/UKRMMA#2 Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Ofnuts <o.f.n.u.t.s@la.poste.net> typed >> As he set off this morning on his newly-legal (for him) 250, I warned >> him: the roads are going to be icy and slippery. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >C'est le métier qui rentre, as we say here. SPEAK f.cking ENGLISH, YOU WOG c.nt as we say here. SignatureWicked Uncle Nigel - "He's hopeless, but he's honest" My position was (and, to be honest, largely remains) one of complete ambiguity. >As he set off this morning on his newly-legal (for him) 250, I warned >him: the roads are going to be icy and slippery. > >Five miles later, too hard a handful of front brake, and goodbye front >wheel, hello nicely bloody knee, goodbye windscreen. BTDT because I didn't take note of warnings from others first either. Signaturesteve auvache A Bloo one with built in safety features > As he set off this morning on his newly-legal (for him) 250, I warned > him: the roads are going to be icy and slippery. > > Five miles later, too hard a handful of front brake, and goodbye front > wheel I'm sure we've all done that. It's amazing how conscious you are of the car behind, which is also struggling to stop on the ice. >> Five miles later, too hard a handful of front brake, and goodbye front >> wheel > >I'm sure we've all done that. It's amazing how conscious you are of the >car behind, which is also struggling to stop on the ice. Oh yes, luckily it was a landrover so I slid some distance underneath without incident. SignatureIan >> As he set off this morning on his newly-legal (for him) 250, I warned >> him: the roads are going to be icy and slippery. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'm sure we've all done that. It's amazing how conscious you are of the > car behind, which is also struggling to stop on the ice. Yeah - hearing the slidy ssssssss noise from behind is *much* worse then hearing the rubber squealing noise from behind[1]. BTD both, although it is seriously wierd to be pushed along the ice by the car behind at walking speed. [1] Cured by more lube, normally. SignatureMike H GSX750F > Five miles later, too hard a handful of front brake, and goodbye front > wheel, It's not something I've grown out of. SignatureSimon > > Five miles later, too hard a handful of front brake, and goodbye > > front wheel, > > It's not something I've grown out of. Looks at .sig... nor me. SignatureLozzo Slightly bent Suzuki SV650S K5 On Feb 25, 11:42 pm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older Gentleman) wrote: > As he set off this morning on his newly-legal (for him) 250, I warned > him: the roads are going to be icy and slippery. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > [1] Honda CD250, in this case. Clumsy f.cker. At least he's been initiated. :-) >As he set off this morning on his newly-legal (for him) 250, I warned >him: the roads are going to be icy and slippery. Silly boy. Glad he's ok. SignatureTim http://www.pitfieldbeershop.co.uk/ |
Enable EMail Alerts
Start New Thread
Reply to this Message