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Motorcycle Forum / Country Specific / UK Group / September 2008R1 vs R6
Last post on 'what bike shall I get?', honest. :-) I've found an R1 locally at a very favourable price, and in the right colour etc, and I'm going to view it on Saturday. As stated in the other threads of late, I've fallen in love with the way the R6 builds its power - am I going to find the R1 pretty linear like the ZX9R, or will it get my juices going in the way an R6 does? Yes, I know... 'just f.ck off and try one'... but I'd be interested to see what others think who've ridden both. The R1 in question is an early 1998 one. TIA -- JackH > Last post on 'what bike shall I get?', honest. :-) > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > way the R6 builds its power - am I going to find the R1 pretty linear > like the ZX9R, or will it get my juices going in the way an R6 does? I've not ridden an R1, but generally speaking with sports bikes, the smaller the engine, the more frenetic the power delivery. An R1 will certainly pull harder at high RPM, but might not feel like it is as the boost when it comes on-cam won't be as obvious. It sounds like what you really need is a Muzzy turbo ZX10R, or a 'sensible' bike for normal use & a CR500 supermoto for playing.  SignatureKrusty www.MuddyStuff.co.uk Off-Road Classifieds '02 MV Senna '03 Tiger 955i '96 Tiger '79 Fantic Hiro 250 > jackhacket...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > > Last post on 'what bike shall I get?', honest. :-) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I've not ridden an R1, but generally speaking with sports bikes, the > smaller the engine, the more frenetic the power delivery. Indeed. > An R1 will certainly pull harder at high RPM, but might not feel like it is as the > boost when it comes on-cam won't be as obvious. Sounds a bit like what the ZX9R delivers then - obviously they're a tad more frentic than that though from what I've read. > It sounds like what you really need is a Muzzy turbo ZX10R, or a > 'sensible' bike for normal use & a CR500 supermoto for playing. If only... I'm not made of money, you know. ;-) -- JackH In article <54887a4e-e0b3-4fcf-9c0c-a3154bff025c@ 34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, says... > Last post on 'what bike shall I get?', honest. :-) > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > The R1 in question is an early 1998 one. Well yes, you *have* to go try one of each. The R1 pulls strongly from very low revs, courtesy of 1,000 cc and an EXUP valve - the R6 needs to be caned shitless, everywhere. It's almost impossible for throttle abuse to get you into trouble on an R6 - on an R1, the delivery is very linear, so it's actually very usable, and isn't trying to kill you, but it *does* have considerably more grunt, so if you f.ck with it, it will get miffed. The light weight and reasonable power means that speed builds deceptively easily - on my 2002 I still find myself thinking "bloody hell that corner was a bit iffy", look down, and realise I'm doing 120, rather than the 80 or so I thought I was doing. I found my 98 R1 heaps easier to ride fast than my 99 9R (C2), because a) the handling's better - it's more neutral, balanced handling and b) there's more grunt everywhere, rather than the big top-end of the 9R, but I don't think, from what you've written, that ease-of-use is high on your list or priorities. I've ridden 3 R6s, and didn't like any of them. Way too peaky for my tastes, but you seem to want something else, so seriously, the only way you'll know is to go try one. Check the rev counter when it spins up as it's switched on - rev counter punching to 3, 7 or 8 k revs (IIRC) means the fuel warning light, throttle position sensor or EXUP valve have issues. PS: Watch the front end under throttle in 1st - the 98s had a tendency to wheelie at the drop of a hat in 1st, hence the fact Yamaha gave the next model a longer first gear. SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport >I've ridden 3 R6s, and didn't like any of them. Way too peaky for my >tastes, but you seem to want something else, so seriously, the only way >you'll know is to go try one. I had an R6 for the day I took the R1 in for a service and *hated* it. if you want something that revs to eek range and you have to work to get anywhere then get an R6. if you want something easier to ride buy an R1. SignatureAdie (replace spam with nickname to reply) New (not yet updated) UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.info/faq/index.html YZF-R1 : ZX9R-E1 : GPz 750 turbo keeper of the FAQ for my sins MRO#11 BOTAFOF#7 BOTAFOT#130 DIAABTCOD#17 MIB#24 YTC#16 BOB#15 ex-UKRMMA#22 BOMB#11 > > I've ridden 3 R6s, and didn't like any of them. Way too peaky for > > my tastes, but you seem to want something else, so seriously, the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > if you want something easier to ride buy an R1. To be honest, after riding a 2007 R1, 2007 R6 and a K6 Gixer thou back to back I'd have the Gixer every day. The R1 felt gutless at low revs and in the midrange compared to the Gixer, and the R6 was just gutless everywhere full stop. SignatureLozzo SV650S K5, CBR600F-W, SR250 SpazzTrakka and a sh.t load more 2-wheeled junk in the garage I believe in free speech, but I still have to pay my phone bill >> > I've ridden 3 R6s, and didn't like any of them. Way too peaky for >> > my tastes, but you seem to want something else, so seriously, the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >and in the midrange compared to the Gixer, and the R6 was just gutless >everywhere full stop. Look , I know you're trying to be helpful, but he's having enough trouble shortening the field as it is. SignatureColin Irvine ZZR1400 BOF#33 BONY#34 COFF#06 BHaLC#5 http://www.colinandpat.co.uk > > > I've ridden 3 R6s, and didn't like any of them. Way too peaky for > > > my tastes, but you seem to want something else, so seriously, the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > and in the midrange compared to the Gixer, and the R6 was just gutless > everywhere full stop. You know I don't agree :) I've always preferred the handling of an R1 to a gixer, although the gixer clearly has the better engine. And the handling of my R1 is as close to perfection as I'm ever going to get. <thinks> All it needs is a 180 bhp motor :) SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport >>>> I've ridden 3 R6s, and didn't like any of them. Way too peaky for >>>> my tastes, but you seem to want something else, so seriously, the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > All it needs is a 180 bhp motor :) Turbo! SignatureNige, 'It's all about the speed' Range Rover Td6 Vogue BMW K1200S Suzuki GSX-R1000 K3 Focus ST3 > >>>> I've ridden 3 R6s, and didn't like any of them. Way too peaky for > >>>> my tastes, but you seem to want something else, so seriously, the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Turbo! No. Turbo is not the way forward. f.ck all tank range, difficult to maintain, prone to failing (not the turbo, the rest). Watch this space, coz I have a Cunning Plan :) SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport >>>All it needs is a 180 bhp motor :) >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Watch this space, coz I have a Cunning Plan :) Turnip? > >>>All it needs is a 180 bhp motor :) > >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Turnip? Sort of :) SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport >>>>> All it needs is a 180 bhp motor :) >>>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Sort of :) Nitrous and a decent size bottle. SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 >> > And the handling of my R1 is as close to perfection as I'm ever going to >> > get. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >No. Turbo is not the way forward. f.ck all tank range, difficult to >maintain, prone to failing (not the turbo, the rest). Quite right too. >Watch this space, coz I have a Cunning Plan :) To be honest, getting 180bhp from a modern litre sports engine is a piece of piss. Wouldn't cost more than a couple of grand, tops. Slick would do it for you over the winter :-) SignatureChamp Two standard issue crutches To email me, neal at my domain should work. > >> > And the handling of my R1 is as close to perfection as I'm ever going to > >> > get. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Quite right too. Plus I don't actually *want* a turbo bike - I don't want the bike to look any different to how it does now ... and with a turbo I would have had to lose the gorgeous Harris MotoGP stacked cans, so no. > >Watch this space, coz I have a Cunning Plan :) > > To be honest, getting 180bhp from a modern litre sports engine is a > piece of piss. Wouldn't cost more than a couple of grand, tops. > Slick would do it for you over the winter :-) <whistles innocently> Would as high an output as 180 be do-able with good reliability though? I thought I was going to have to settle for somewhere around the 165 mark, at the rear wheel. SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport >Would as high an output as 180 be do-able with good reliability though? No problem at all, I'd ahve thought. Kwackzilla has 194bhp at the wheel, and Slick says it'll be no problem at all to run on the street, cos it'll never get 10% of the caning that it would on the track. SignatureChamp Two standard issue crutches To email me, neal at my domain should work. > >Would as high an output as 180 be do-able with good reliability though? > > No problem at all, I'd ahve thought. Kwackzilla has 194bhp at the > wheel, and Slick says it'll be no problem at all to run on the street, > cos it'll never get 10% of the caning that it would on the track. I am suddenly even more interested in this line of enquiry than I was before. 180 in that package would be a *hoot* :) SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport > In article <54887a4e-e0b3-4fcf-9c0c-a3154bff025c@ > 34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, says... [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Well yes, you *have* to go try one of each. Aye. The bike I'm looking at Saturday looks very clean and original - it's done something like 30k from new. Doesn't even have wanky mini indicators, which are something the 'R'isti seem to favour going by the bikes I've seen on eBay etc, so far. It's in spangly bloo as well, which is the one true colour for either of these IMHO. > The R1 pulls strongly from very low revs, courtesy of 1,000 cc and an > EXUP valve - the R6 needs to be caned shitless, everywhere. Ok... this is something my mate, who has had the use of an R1 in the past and keeps on nagging me I should get one of these instead, can't seem to appreciate might be something some of us actually see as a good thing? > It's almost impossible for throttle abuse to get you into trouble on an > R6 - on an R1, the delivery is very linear, so it's actually very [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > bit iffy", look down, and realise I'm doing 120, rather than the 80 or > so I thought I was doing. Heh > I found my 98 R1 heaps easier to ride fast than my 99 9R (C2), because > a) the handling's better - it's more neutral, balanced handling and b) > there's more grunt everywhere, rather than the big top-end of the 9R, > but I don't think, from what you've written, that ease-of-use is high on > your list or priorities. It's something to get my kicks on primarily - all other considerations bar maybe the ability to ride it for more than 20 miles without a season ticket with an osteopath, are relatively moot points. The R6 last weekend proved to be far more accommodating comfort wise, than I'd been expecting. > I've ridden 3 R6s, and didn't like any of them. Way too peaky for my > tastes, but you seem to want something else, so seriously, the only way > you'll know is to go try one. Well I've done the R6 last week... this week it's the turn of the R1 :-) > Check the rev counter when it spins up as it's switched on - rev counter > punching to 3, 7 or 8 k revs (IIRC) means the fuel warning light, > throttle position sensor or EXUP valve have issues. Ta muchly > PS: Watch the front end under throttle in 1st - the 98s had a tendency > to wheelie at the drop of a hat in 1st... ...you say that like it's a bad thing. ;-) What about second - wheelies in spades off the power? -- JackH On 24 Sep, 11:56, Bear <bastardDOTb...@gmail.com> wrote: > The R1 pulls strongly from very low revs, courtesy of 1,000 cc and an > EXUP valve - the R6 needs to be caned shitless, everywhere. Ok... this is something my mate, who has had the use of an R1 in the past and keeps on nagging me I should get one of these instead, can't seem to appreciate might be something some of us actually see as a good thing? Using only two gears on UK roads (for fast and faster) with a 1000 is a good thing: Helps for a more relaxed driving for commuting, travelling or saving left hand clutch effort in case you are a lefty w.nker. And if you want to experiment the thrill of a 600 when it starts moving fast, simply rev the 1000 beyond 8000 rpm. And enjoy. In article <4efd834e-db2f-43ee-92d3- 53fe0aa8a0df@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, says... > > Well yes, you *have* to go try one of each. > > Aye. > > The bike I'm looking at Saturday looks very clean and original - it's > done something like 30k from new. Again, too high a mileage for my tastes - put 10k on it and it'll be worth buttons. > Doesn't even have wanky mini indicators, which are something the > 'R'isti seem to favour going by the bikes I've seen on eBay etc, so > far. I like mini indicators, as it happens ... well I like nice ones. The faired-in shite my 2002 currently wears is *crap* > It's in spangly bloo as well, which is the one true colour for either > of these IMHO. Blue is nice (my 98 was the blue, and I loved it), but I prefer the black I have now. The red & white, or yellow/black speedblock you sometimes see, look awful IMHO. > > The R1 pulls strongly from very low revs, courtesy of 1,000 cc and an > > EXUP valve - the R6 needs to be caned shitless, everywhere. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > seem to appreciate might be something some of us actually see as a > good thing? Neither can I, TBH. I want something that goes f.cking fast, not something that gives me the illusion I'm Rossi, when I'm clearly not. I *need* (as Mat Tab correctly observed) a bike that leaves me in no doubt it'll tear my head off if I f.ck with it. 600s aren't my thing. To me, the only reason for buying most 600 sports bikes is coz someone's either too young or too pikey to afford the litre equivalent. But that's just me - you're you. > > It's almost impossible for throttle abuse to get you into trouble on an > > R6 - on an R1, the delivery is very linear, so it's actually very [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Heh Honestly; of all the bikes I've ever owned, my current R1 is the most "surprising" in the speed stakes. The 98 was less so, but still made mph in a deceptive fashion, when not being caned. It's the torque and the nice suspension. Oh, and the balance; it never feels as if one end is working harder than the other, something you can't say of a 9R, where 90% of the hardship seems to come from the rear. > > I found my 98 R1 heaps easier to ride fast than my 99 9R (C2), because > > a) the handling's better - it's more neutral, balanced handling and b) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It's something to get my kicks on primarily Then fine, an R6 should do you proud. If I had to get a 600, it would be a nearly-new 6R or 600RR for me, purely because I've seen, at close range, how calm both are over bumps, at mental speeds; the R6 struck me as a bit more knife-edge - ie it *feels* faster, but only because it's closer to the edge. If that's what you want (and it sounds like it is) then you'll love it. > The R6 last weekend proved to be far more accommodating comfort wise, > than I'd been expecting. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Well I've done the R6 last week... this week it's the turn of the > R1 :-) Enjoy. But I think you'll end up with the R6, from what you've said. > > Check the rev counter when it spins up as it's switched on - rev counter > > punching to 3, 7 or 8 k revs (IIRC) means the fuel warning light, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > ...you say that like it's a bad thing. ;-) No *seriously*, on the 98/early-99 models the front comes up like lightning in 1st. > What about second - wheelies in spades off the power? Yes. Muchly. The slightest rearward shift in weight is enough, at full chat. I still prefer lofting in 1st though, and snatching 2nd ASAP, coz I'm crap at wheelies. SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport > Yes. Muchly. The slightest rearward shift in weight is enough, at > full chat. I still prefer lofting in 1st though, and snatching 2nd > ASAP, coz I'm crap at wheelies. I much prefer the progressive and not vicious feeling that a 2nd or 3rd gear wheelie gives. 1st always seems too brutal and hard to judge where the point I want to keep it at because it's coming up too fast. I'm crap at wheelies too, only ever pulled 2 or 3 really great ones in my life. SignatureLozzo SV650S K5, CBR600F-W, SR250 SpazzTrakka and a sh.t load more 2-wheeled junk in the garage I believe in free speech, but I still have to pay my phone bill > > Yes. Muchly. The slightest rearward shift in weight is enough, at > > full chat. I still prefer lofting in 1st though, and snatching 2nd [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > gear wheelie gives. 1st always seems too brutal and hard to judge where > the point I want to keep it at because it's coming up too fast. <hushed aside to Lozzo> I really love that scary feeling in 1st :) I haven't practised enough with my 2002 to get to the point I had with the 98, where I could blat it up in 1st and hang on through 2nd and 3rd. I recall a trip through MK with Pip behind me where I ended up laughing my arse off inside my lid. Happy days :) > I'm crap at wheelies too, only ever pulled 2 or 3 really great ones in > my life. I'm better than that, but still, realistically, shite compared to the good guys. PS: The muppet who did the wiring job on the homdicators is the second fastest man ever over the flying kilometre wheelie ... "Sunny Jim" ... knows Veggie, apparently [1] [1] but then who doesn't - he's such a tart :) SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport > PS: The muppet who did the wiring job on the homdicators is the > second fastest man ever over the flying kilometre wheelie ... "Sunny > Jim" ... knows Veggie, apparently [1] He should stick to wheelies cos he's crap at electrics. SignatureLozzo SV650S K5, CBR600F-W, SR250 SpazzTrakka and a sh.t load more 2-wheeled junk in the garage I believe in free speech, but I still have to pay my phone bill > > PS: The muppet who did the wiring job on the homdicators is the > > second fastest man ever over the flying kilometre wheelie ... "Sunny > > Jim" ... knows Veggie, apparently [1] > > He should stick to wheelies cos he's crap at electrics. Oh f.ck yeah. IIRC though the record was ITRO 150 mph, over an average flying k, which is f.cking good going in my book. PS: have you got bored enough yet to read my magnum opus? I wanna do stuff to this bike :) We need to save it from its homdicated hell, the poor thing :) SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport > > > PS: The muppet who did the wiring job on the homdicators is the > > > second fastest man ever over the flying kilometre wheelie ... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > stuff to this bike :) We need to save it from its homdicated hell, > the poor thing :) I'll read it again in a minute. My head wasn't in a reading place when it arrived. SignatureLozzo SV650S K5, CBR600F-W, SR250 SpazzTrakka and a sh.t load more 2-wheeled junk in the garage I believe in free speech, but I still have to pay my phone bill > > > > PS: The muppet who did the wiring job on the homdicators is the > > > > second fastest man ever over the flying kilometre wheelie ... [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I'll read it again in a minute. My head wasn't in a reading place when > it arrived. Seriously, no rush, old bean ... and if you haven't got the new pair of specs, avoid, as it'll give you brain ache :) SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport >> Yes. Muchly. The slightest rearward shift in weight is enough, at >> full chat. I still prefer lofting in 1st though, and snatching 2nd [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I'm crap at wheelies too, only ever pulled 2 or 3 really great ones in > my life. My best was my first time on a TZ350 when I let it drop out of the powerband and changed down without remembering to fully close the throttle.... SignatureEiron. > In article <4efd834e-db2f-43ee-92d3- > 53fe0aa8a...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, says... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Again, too high a mileage for my tastes - put 10k on it and it'll be > worth buttons. It's only £1900 as it is - suspect he might take a little less on the day as well... not overpriced really given it all appears to be original, looking at what some others seem to be fetching of late. <SNIP> > > > The R1 pulls strongly from very low revs, courtesy of 1,000 cc and an > > > EXUP valve - the R6 needs to be caned shitless, everywhere. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > *need* (as Mat Tab correctly observed) a bike that leaves me in no doubt > it'll tear my head off if I f.ck with it. 600s aren't my thing. Well I decided that after the last CBR600... and then I rode that R6 last weekend and it turned my own personal rule book up on its head. :-) > To me, the only reason for buying most 600 sports bikes is coz someone's > either too young or too pikey to afford the litre equivalent. <resists bait> ;-) > But that's just me - you're you. Indeed. <SNIP> > > > PS: Watch the front end under throttle in 1st - the 98s had a tendency > > > to wheelie at the drop of a hat in 1st... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > No *seriously*, on the 98/early-99 models the front comes up like > lightning in 1st. Excellent > > What about second - wheelies in spades off the power? > Yes. Muchly. The slightest rearward shift in weight is enough, at full > chat. I still prefer lofting in 1st though, and snatching 2nd ASAP, coz > I'm crap at wheelies. I'm no great shakes, but I'm getting better - the VFR is *really* easy to loft in first, the 9R, not so easy. Incidentally, someone has agreed to buy the 9R on Saturday - £1675. I think it's fair to say he's got himself a bit of a bargain really, especially as I actually went through the folder of paperwork for it today and realised instead of the two old MOTs I thought it had, it has the full suite back to 2003 when it first needed one. :-) And before anyone sucks air through their teeth and mutters 'mug', I've done alright on a few other bits of late I've punted out of late, so I'd rather take a bit of knock and know it's sold now, rather than hold out for a better price and then potentially lose out on a bike that comes along in the meantime that's ideal for me because my money is tied up in the 9R. You win some, you lose some. :-) -- JackH In article <217305c0-d981-44aa-bdc1-6ae16a5f0569 @k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, says... > > Again, too high a mileage for my tastes - put 10k on it and it'll be > > worth buttons. > > It's only £1900 as it is - suspect he might take a little less on the > day as well... not overpriced really given it all appears to be > original, looking at what some others seem to be fetching of late. There must be better deals on lower mileage stuff. > > Neither can I, TBH. I want something that goes f.cking fast, not > > something that gives me the illusion I'm Rossi, when I'm clearly not. I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > last weekend and it turned my own personal rule book up on its > head. :-) If it's what you want then you have it. Not my thing at all, but for you riding gods then so be it. > > But that's just me - you're you. > > Indeed. If *you* want a certain bike, then have it. That's the whole point :) > > > > PS: Watch the front end under throttle in 1st - the 98s had a tendency > > > > to wheelie at the drop of a hat in 1st... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Excellent You may not feel that way once you've experienced it ... it took me a while to get used to. But if you like it, then buy it. > > > What about second - wheelies in spades off the power? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'm no great shakes, but I'm getting better - the VFR is *really* easy > to loft in first, the 9R, not so easy. I still maintain the 9R is nasty for wheelies; Champ's a pro, and even he (if you search ukrm archives) admits the 9R isn't a wheelie happy thing. They're too top-heavy, too peaky, and too clunky on gearchange, to wheelie nicely. Pro-only kit. > Incidentally, someone has agreed to buy the 9R on Saturday - £1675. Sounds about right, from what you've written. > I think it's fair to say he's got himself a bit of a bargain really, > especially as I actually went through the folder of paperwork for it > today and realised instead of the two old MOTs I thought it had, it > has the full suite back to 2003 when it first needed one. :-) So? It's old, it's not cutting edge, and it's got miles. Remember what I said about miles? > You win some, you lose some. :-) Buy better, would be my advice, Starting with not buying a 30k miles R1. SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport > Starting with not buying a 30k miles R1. I'd be happy with an immaculate one-owner bike, maybe even two owners, but anything more than that: you just *know* some bugger has abused it (probably the gearbox). SignatureBMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Yamaha XT600E Honda CB400F & SH50 GHPOTHUF#1 chateaudotmurrayatidnetdotcom Nothing is more dangerous than an ignoramus with a workshop manual, a 'can-do' attitude and a cheap set of tools > > Starting with not buying a 30k miles R1. > > I'd be happy with an immaculate one-owner bike, maybe even two owners, > but anything more than that: you just *know* some bugger has abused it > (probably the gearbox). My rule of thumb is always to imagine what miles it'll have on it when I come to sell it ... a 40k R1, for example (I rarely put fewer than 10k miles on a bike), with yet another owner on the books, will be worth buttons, not because an R1 can't do those miles (they can), but because 90% of potential owners won't want it with those miles on. SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport > My rule of thumb is always to imagine what miles it'll have on it when I > come to sell it ... a 40k R1, for example (I rarely put fewer than 10k > miles on a bike), with yet another owner on the books, will be worth > buttons, not because an R1 can't do those miles (they can), but because > 90% of potential owners won't want it with those miles on. That's a very sensible way of looking at it. That said, there are some (a very few!) vehicles that I just decide to keep until they break. The Ducati, obviously. The 400 Four. The car. SignatureBMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Yamaha XT600E Honda CB400F & SH50 GHPOTHUF#1 chateaudotmurrayatidnetdotcom Nothing is more dangerous than an ignoramus with a workshop manual, a 'can-do' attitude and a cheap set of tools > > My rule of thumb is always to imagine what miles it'll have on it when I > > come to sell it ... a 40k R1, for example (I rarely put fewer than 10k [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > That said, there are some (a very few!) vehicles that I just decide to > keep until they break. The Ducati, obviously. The 400 Four. The car. Yeah I think the Saab is going to fit that category (unless something major goes wrong with it of course) ... I enjoy driving it so much, and it's just so bloody good at *everything* - fun to drive, fast enough (by car standards), reasonably frugal for something that is capable of those speeds (especially on long, fast trips), ideal GT car for touring france in, plenty of space for shopping, excellent cabin, all the toys (including cruise control on a manual 6-speed box, which I love) good sounds, and *the* best seats (heated too) for my back I've ever encountered (better even than the beemer 7 series, which is saying something). Barring accidents, theft and major blowups I think I'll probably keep it for at least another year; I bought it with 50-odd k showing, it's done another 25 k now, and at 75 k miles there's not a lot of point chopping it in against anything else, principally because, ATM, there's nothing else in that price range that appeals enough for me to want to shift it. I was thinking about chopping it in for an M3 GTR or possibly an M5 next spring, when the trade will be dying on its arse, but a) I don't really see what spending another £15-20,000 on top of this car is going to give me, apart from a few more bhp and b) anything too high profile will get keyed on the street or (almost as bad) get scratched like the Saab has a few times by ignorant f.cking schoolkids scraping it with their bags/zips etc. So it *may* be the first car I've ever decided to drive into the ground. With the exception of a new turbo somewhere around 80-100 k miles, I can't see what else (of the big stuff) is likely to go wrong, but we'll see :) So far (touches wood) it's been utterly Bear-proof, despite being regularly and comprehensively twatted. SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport Bear <bastardDOTbear@gmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: > With the exception of a new turbo somewhere around 80-100 k miles And the rest. My Saab's on 180k-ish on what I'm fairly certain is the original turbo. > Bear <bastardDOTbear@gmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they > were saying: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > And the rest. My Saab's on 180k-ish on what I'm fairly certain is the > original turbo. Is yours the LPT or the later, higher pressure one? (160 or 185 bhp is the LPT, 205 or 210 is the high pressure one). Mine's the latter and I'm given to understand that they can (and sometimes do) let go if the car in question is driven with a degree of commitment, which mine sometimes is. If it turns out to last as long as yours though I'll be dead chuffed. SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport Bear <bastardDOTbear@gmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >> > With the exception of a new turbo somewhere around 80-100 k miles >> And the rest. My Saab's on 180k-ish on what I'm fairly certain is the >> original turbo. > Is yours the LPT or the later, higher pressure one? FPT - it's a '90 proper 900, not one of these Vauxhall things... > Bear <bastardDOTbear@gmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they > were saying: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > FPT - it's a '90 proper 900, not one of these Vauxhall things... How much power do they make then? SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport Bear <bastardDOTbear@gmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >> >> > With the exception of a new turbo somewhere around 80-100 k miles >> >> And the rest. My Saab's on 180k-ish on what I'm fairly certain is >> >> the original turbo. >> > Is yours the LPT or the later, higher pressure one? >> FPT - it's a '90 proper 900, not one of these Vauxhall things... > How much power do they make then? 165/175/185bhp from 2.0 depending on cat and boost level. Mine's 175. > Bear <bastardDOTbear@gmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they > were saying: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > 165/175/185bhp from 2.0 depending on cat and boost level. Mine's 175. Ah. That'll be the reason then ... the later ones like mine make 20-25 bhp more, with a resultant tail-off in turbo life. Although a) they don't all apparently do it and b) a replacement isn't, apparently, that costly - ITRO £850, fitted, which for something that only needs doing once every 100,000 miles or so doesn't strike me as too bad. If I'm feeling especially silly at the time I may have it chipped and gated, which apparently releases circa 250 bhp, although TBH I haven't noticed any lack of go just yet. But it might be fun :) SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport Bear <bastardDOTbear@gmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: > Ah. That'll be the reason then ... the later ones like mine make 20-25 > bhp more, with a resultant tail-off in turbo life. IIRC, it's as much down to the improved management - and, especially, ignition - but increasing the boost doesn't inherently shorten turbo life. Lubrication & cooling are the main killers. > Bear <bastardDOTbear@gmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they > were saying: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ignition - but increasing the boost doesn't inherently shorten turbo > life. Lubrication & cooling are the main killers. The way it was explained to me is that the higher output turbos are running under more pressure, but also produce more heat - the cooling's uprated over earlier models, but not enough to make them last as long as the lower power ones. But we shall see - I certainly haven't noticed any increase in noise yet, which (along with smoking when cold/started) is usually the first sign all is not well. I'll let you know when it goes bang :) SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport > > Starting with not buying a 30k miles R1. > > I'd be happy with an immaculate one-owner bike, maybe even two owners, > but anything more than that: you just *know* some bugger has abused it > (probably the gearbox). I'm not fussed by the number of previous owners. I just know that if it hasn't been abused before me, it will have been by the time I get rid of it, so why worry. Signatureogden GSXR750 K4 RGV250 VJ22 >> In article <54887a4e-e0b3-4fcf-9c0c-a3154bff025c@ >> 34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, says... [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > > What about second - wheelies in spades off the power? Sounds like you're scared of power, biker boy..... SignatureNige, 'That's not my name' Range Rover Td6 Vogue BMW K1200S Suzuki GSX-R1000 K3 Focus ST3 > Last post on 'what bike shall I get?', honest. :-) > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > The R1 in question is an early 1998 one. If you like the whole change gears thrash the nuts off it, stick with the 600 as the R1 will happily use just a couple of gears on UK roads so you won't get the same feeling IMO. The early R1 was as mad as a box of frogs, watch for headbearings due to wheelie misuse reg/rectifyer problems up to 2001. Have fun on Saturday! SignatureVass > The early R1 was as mad as a box of frogs, watch for headbearings due > to wheelie misuse reg/rectifyer problems up to 2001. I recently came across a '98 R1 that had ovalled the bearing seat on the top of the headstock. It was pretty bad, to the extent that the bearing race shot across my workshop when I smacked it out with a drift. I only hit the thing once too. The owner scrapped the bike for spares because the engine was a tired old ex-race lump that burnt oil at a ridiculous rate and wasn't worth reframing. He made a grand in profit on the bike over 3 years of ownership by breaking it SignatureLozzo SV650S K5, CBR600F-W, SR250 SpazzTrakka and a sh.t load more 2-wheeled junk in the garage I believe in free speech, but I still have to pay my phone bill > Last post on 'what bike shall I get?', honest. :-) > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > TIA Buy the R1, R6 & many other sport 600's are way too peaky for general road use to be comfortable or easy to use as they are meant to be used. I have never owned an R1, but if i did (and i will) i very much doubt i would even try an R6. It's horses for course as with all things, but it's no fun changing gears & redlining in traffic to make progress. SignatureNige, 'That's not my name' Range Rover Td6 Vogue BMW K1200S Suzuki GSX-R1000 K3 Focus ST3 > I have never owned an R1, but if i did (and i will) uh huh...so how long 'til you sell the gsxr? ;-) SignatureKiran D.Bot (Celeritas) ??? BOTAFOT#19; IBW#14; BOTAFOF#20; MRO#18 >> I have never owned an R1, but if i did (and i will) > > uh huh...so how long 'til you sell the gsxr? ;-) na, give me time man, give me time.... SignatureNige, 'It's all about the speed' Range Rover Td6 Vogue BMW K1200S Suzuki GSX-R1000 K3 Focus ST3 > > Last post on 'what bike shall I get?', honest. :-) > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > try an R6. It's horses for course as with all things, but it's no fun > changing gears & redlining in traffic to make progress. But Nige, that's *your* thing (and mine): what Jack is after is something like a 4-stroke for people who love 2-strokes. I learned this a while back; just as with people, what I see in them is not what others do. I might say "but he's funny and doesn't take himself seriously", whereas the reply sometimes comes "but he's a total loon who won't grow up!". Same thing, but bike related; different strokes for different folks. Jack loves the rev build, so a 17k redline is better than a 12k one. <thinks> Of course, he might come back realising that 600s are f.cking chickwheels, but then again he may not :) SignatureBear 2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport > In article <6jvlsrF5c6r...@mid.individual.net>, Nige says... > > Buy the R1, R6 & many other sport 600's are way too peaky for general road [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > But Nige, that's *your* thing (and mine): what Jack is after is > something like a 4-stroke for people who love 2-strokes. *ding* > I learned this a while back; just as with people, what I see in them is > not what others do. I might say "but he's funny and doesn't take [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Of course, he might come back realising that 600s are f.cking > chickwheels, but then again he may not :) ...at which point I'll probably reel off a load of posts about 'Gixxer Thou or R1'. lol Let's see what happens when I become acquainted with the R1 on Saturday... It's real one, btw... not an 'i' series. ;-) -- JackH > Of course, he might come back realising that 600s are f.cking > chickwheels, but then again he may not :) He should buy a Ducati 996 or 998. Lovely power delivery. 160 top end. Reliable and really well made. And they have a bit of a rush on around 5000rpm on the way to a 9 or 10 red line. SignatureHog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 > jackhacket...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > > Last post on 'what bike shall I get?', honest. :-) [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Buy the R1, R6 & many other sport 600's are way too peaky for general road > use to be comfortable or easy to use as they are meant to be used. I disagree. And for me, in power terms at least, 'comfortable' appears to be equating to 'boring' these days. > I have > never owned an R1, but if i did (and i will) i very much doubt i would even > try an R6. It's horses for course as with all things, but it's no fun > changing gears & redlining in traffic to make progress. You don't need to redline something like this at all, to 'make progress' in traffic... it's well on the road to 'Nuts City' at 8k... and you've another 8k to play with until the rev limiter kicks in. -- JackH |
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