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Motorcycle Forum / Country Specific / UK Group / November 2008Top Gear
Was it just me, or were there NO reviews whatsoever this week? Dear oh dear. They usually manage at least one! Last week's USA special was good, though. -- SeanH - '01 Fazer 600 in black | '97 GSX-R 750 SRAD. > Was it just me, or were there NO reviews whatsoever this week? > > Dear oh dear. They usually manage at least one! Last week's USA > special was good, though. All I know is, I want that smoothie maker!  SignatureAndy Hewitt <http://web.me.com/andrewhewitt1/> >> Was it just me, or were there NO reviews whatsoever this week? >> >> Dear oh dear. They usually manage at least one! Last week's USA >> special was good, though. > > All I know is, I want that smoothie maker! http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oOGJLoVi-Bg > >> Was it just me, or were there NO reviews whatsoever this week? > >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oOGJLoVi-Bg Excellent. SignatureAndy Hewitt <http://web.me.com/andrewhewitt1/> >>>> Was it just me, or were there NO reviews whatsoever this week? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Excellent. I quite like the idea of going the other way..... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DDWqJe1dCgY 24 x 2-Stroke Chainsaw motors in a bike.... nice. SignatureCheerz - Brownz '89 K100RS '07 R55 MCDC >>>>> Was it just me, or were there NO reviews whatsoever this week? >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >24 x 2-Stroke Chainsaw motors in a bike.... nice. All we need is an alternative porsch to race it against Signaturegeoff >Was it just me, or were there NO reviews whatsoever this week? Nope, there weren't any. >Dear oh dear. They usually manage at least one! Why on earth is it a problem? They usually only ever review exotica outside almost everyones reach anyway. SignatureChamp Two standard issue crutches To email me, neal at my domain should work. > On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:11:11 -0800 (PST), Sean Hamerton > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Why on earth is it a problem? They usually only ever review exotica > outside almost everyones reach anyway. Meh, it's not a big problem. They already nod to the fact on air. Other gripes - the leccy wheelchair was dull, the rally driving was dull, and the Marky Mark interview was also pretty dull. The Avantine tuning was interesting enough, though they did waste time having them turn up in their (own) Aston and Porsches. Pretty poor overall :/ -- SeanH - '01 Fazer 600 in black | '97 GSX-R 750 SRAD. >Other gripes - the leccy wheelchair was dull I found that quite interesting > the rally driving was dull, and I found that quite amusing >and the Marky Mark interview was also pretty dull. And Marky Mark was easily the most interesting guest they've have in ages. FFS, last week it was some twat off the x factor or something! SignatureChamp Two standard issue crutches To email me, neal at my domain should work. Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote in news:rbd1i4d5eo5qm6bg8094bga09cl1k311oc@ 4ax.com: >>Other gripes - the leccy wheelchair was dull > > I found that quite interesting Missed that bit. Doing the "watch with mother" thing and she likes Antiques Roadshow. >> the rally driving was dull, > > and I found that quite amusing AOL. MH came across as an affable chap. JM has a presenting style that I find amusing. He should be given more solo projects as I'm getting rather bored with the other ones. >>and the Marky Mark interview was also pretty dull. AOL. I'm really bad, name drop, name drop... > And Marky Mark was easily the most interesting guest they've have in > ages. FFS, last week it was some twat off the x factor or something! But, but, every home should have a nice, middle class, 20 something, promiscuous, homosexual. Plus, he was quite quick in the wet, apparently. Signaturewessie at tesco dot net BMW R1150GS > > and the Marky Mark interview was also pretty dull. > > And Marky Mark was easily the most interesting guest they've have in > ages. FFS, last week it was some twat off the x factor or something! Not wanting to become the Will Young appreciation society (he murdered Jim Morrison) but he's been the only "Pop Idol" to move from manufactured TV Pop to a self sustained career delivering soulful TV Pop. All fairly harmless but he appears fairly shrewd at dealing with the music business. Although, I'm rather surprised you've become the random voice of bile. SignatureSimon > > > and the Marky Mark interview was also pretty dull. > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > TV Pop to a self sustained career delivering soulful TV Pop. All fairly > harmless but he appears fairly shrewd at dealing with the music business. Lemar seems on track to follow in his footsteps. Though he was a Fame Academy reject, iirc, rather than a Cowell construction. Signatureogden GSX-R750 K4 RGV250 VJ22 >> > and the Marky Mark interview was also pretty dull. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >TV Pop to a self sustained career delivering soulful TV Pop. All fairly >harmless but he appears fairly shrewd at dealing with the music business. I've no idea how you know all this. I've almost, but not quite, never heard of him. All I know is he won some TV talent show. Since then, I've no idea what he's done. Therefore by definition, he's not achieved enough for me to be interested in seeing him interviewed on Top Gear. >Although, I'm rather surprised you've become the random voice of bile. <shrug> I didn't see any bile - I'd just like to see people on the show who's achievements I've heard of. SignatureChamp What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R600 racer (for sale) | ZX10R racer (broken) neal at champ dot org dot uk > >> > and the Marky Mark interview was also pretty dull. > >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > achieved enough for me to be interested in seeing him interviewed on > Top Gear. It doesn't, however, follow that he has therefore not achieved enough for a wider audience to be interested. He's not my cup of tea either (and the one time I accompanied the doris to see him live was possibly the most tedious musical experience of my life thus far) but he was far from the least entertaining guest they've had on there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Young may help drag you out of The Ace Zone. Signatureogden GSX-R750 K4 RGV250 VJ22 >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Young may help drag you out of The Ace >Zone. I *like* being in the Ace Zone! SignatureChamp What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R600 racer (for sale) | ZX10R racer (broken) neal at champ dot org dot uk >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Young may help drag you out of The Ace >>Zone. > >I *like* being in the Ace Zone! " " Signature_______ .'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com) \`\ | /`/ `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10 `\|/` ` >>>> and the Marky Mark interview was also pretty dull. >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > achieved enough for me to be interested in seeing him interviewed on > Top Gear. It's not all about you and what you have or haven't followed though, is it... :-) >> Although, I'm rather surprised you've become the random voice of >> bile. > > <shrug> I didn't see any bile - I'd just like to see people on the > show who's achievements I've heard of. You've admitted up there you're aware he won a TV talent show... never mind what he's done before or since, that in its self is an achievement even you'd heard of. SignatureJackH 98 Honda VFR800FiW 05 Sachs Madass 03 VW Passat TDI Sport 89 Vauxhall Nova 1.3 Pearl >>>>> and the Marky Mark interview was also pretty dull. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >It's not all about you and what you have or haven't followed though, is >it... :-) Of course it isn't - I was just contrasting the view of the OP that the Mark Wahlberg interview was dull. SignatureChamp What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R600 racer (for sale) | ZX10R racer (broken) neal at champ dot org dot uk > Of course it isn't - I was just contrasting the view of the OP that the > Mark Wahlberg interview was dull. <penny drops> Ah. Dirk Diggler (sp?) Signaturep BotM#1 LotR#9 blog: <http://prawnuk.blogspot.com> > I've no idea how you know all this. I've almost, but not quite, never > heard of him. All I know is he won some TV talent show. Since then, > I've no idea what he's done. Therefore by definition, he's not > achieved enough for me to be interested in seeing him interviewed on > Top Gear. That's a bit of a narrow minded viewpoint, though IMO. Take James Blunt, for example. I only ever knew the one song (You're Beautiful, IIRC) and I didn't like it. He was on TG in the last series (or maybe even the one before but "whatever") and I found the interview to be quite eye-opening. He came across as a really interesting person, albeit very self-effacing. I've since explicitly made a point of watching other interviews with him. I still can't stand his music. SignatureChris >> I've no idea how you know all this. I've almost, but not quite, never >> heard of him. All I know is he won some TV talent show. Since then, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >That's a bit of a narrow minded viewpoint, though IMO. Moi? >Take James Blunt, for example. I only ever knew the one song (You're >Beautiful, IIRC) and I didn't like it. He was on TG in the last series >(or maybe even the one before but "whatever") and I found the interview >to be quite eye-opening. He came across as a really interesting >person, albeit very self-effacing. You've holed my argument below the waterline, I think - I also couldn't (and still can't) stand Blunt's music, but he was indeed a very interesting interviewee. Maybe it was cos I found Will Young's interview so cringeworthy that I had to fast forward through it? SignatureChamp What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R600 racer (for sale) | ZX10R racer (broken) neal at champ dot org dot uk > You've holed my argument below the waterline, I think - I also > couldn't (and still can't) stand Blunt's music, but he was indeed a > very interesting interviewee. Blimey - that's a first! > Maybe it was cos I found Will Young's interview so cringeworthy that I > had to fast forward through it? I didn't think it particularly good TV either, but then I simply can't stand Will Young, or his music. This is totally irrational I know, and I'm not going to even *try* to justify it, but there you go. SignatureChris > >> And Marky Mark was easily the most interesting guest they've have in > >> ages. FFS, last week it was some twat off the x factor or something! > I've no idea how you know all this. I've almost, but not quite, never > heard of him. .. but you know enough to call him a twat. SignatureSimon >> >> And Marky Mark was easily the most interesting guest they've have in >> >> ages. FFS, last week it was some twat off the x factor or something! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >.. but you know enough to call him a twat. It's my default setting for anyone who appears on reality TV. SignatureChamp Two standard issue crutches To email me, neal at my domain should work. Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote in news:84o3i4d9pnb1o1vcq04nf9327topjieqfu@ 4ax.com: > It's my default setting for anyone who appears on reality TV. I don't have any time for most reality TV shows. However, X Factor/Pop Idol are basically singing competitions. Yes, it's hyped to f.ck and ultimately a cash generating machine for Simon Cowell & ITV. The format is little different to others before it such as New Faces & Opportunity Knocks. Talent competitions are part of popular culture in Britain. As sweller pointed out above, sometimes they produce entertainers who go on to have successful careers. Will Young seems to be in that category, as does another winner Leona Lewis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Faces includes winners Lenny Henry & Victoria Wood. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_Knocks lists Les Dawson & Pam Ayres as alumni. These four have entertained me over the years. I'm not so sure that they would've come to the fore without entering the competition. Signaturewessie at tesco dot net BMW R1150GS >Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote in news:84o3i4d9pnb1o1vcq04nf9327topjieqfu@ >4ax.com: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >ITV. The format is little different to others before it such as New Faces & >Opportunity Knocks. While I appreciate that they are basically the same sort of show, I think it is the format which has changed massively, and makes it impossible for me to watch. Also, I've changed massively - I was a child when those 70s shows were on. SignatureChamp Two standard issue crutches To email me, neal at my domain should work. >>Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote in >>news:84o3i4d9pnb1o1vcq04nf9327topjieqfu@ 4ax.com: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > impossible for me to watch. Also, I've changed massively - I was a > child when those 70s shows were on. It hasn't changed that much. Mickie Most wasn't that different to Simon Cowell. Signaturewessie at tesco dot net BMW R1150GS >>>> It's my default setting for anyone who appears on reality TV. >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> impossible for me to watch. Also, I've changed massively - I was a >> child when those 70s shows were on. >It hasn't changed that much. Mickie Most wasn't that different to Simon >Cowell. Probably not. I've thought about this a fair bit more, mind. I don't think any 'genuine' (my quotes, obviously) musical talent came out of the talent shows of the 70s and 80s. Comedians did, but there wasn't the comedy circuit that there is now - I doubt any one with comic aspirations would be seen dead near a talent show nowadays. The modern talent shows do turn out people who can sing, I'll grant you that. But, you need a lot more than a voice to be successful, as Joss Stone has demonstrated. These singers - whose songs are they going to sing? If they don't write their own material, they'll just be Callow's caged song birds, dependent on the writers he employs. I doubt any of them will have real long term careers. SignatureChamp Two standard issue crutches To email me, neal at my domain should work. > Callow's caged song birds You've got such a poetic turn of phrase, you have. Remember Chinnichap? >> Callow's caged song birds > >You've got such a poetic turn of phrase, you have. <suspicious> Are you taking the mick? >Remember Chinnichap? I do. I guess you're agreeing with me? While some of those songs (Blockbuster by Sweet, Tiger Feet by Mud, a couple of the Suzi Quattro hits) are indicative of an era, they're pretty throwaway stuff, and none of the bands managed any success without the Chinn/Chapman writing team. SignatureChamp Two standard issue crutches To email me, neal at my domain should work. >>> Callow's caged song birds >> >> You've got such a poetic turn of phrase, you have. > > <suspicious> Are you taking the mick? Would I? >> Remember Chinnichap? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > none of the bands managed any success without the Chinn/Chapman > writing team. Yeah, and where are Sweet, Mud etc nowadays? Suzi's still around, but that's mostly down to the hard-working bass player thing. > >> Callow's caged song birds > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > none of the bands managed any success without the Chinn/Chapman > writing team. Mud are a really, really bad example. Rob Davis, guitarist in Mud, went on to write Groovejet (Spiller) and Can't Get You Out Of My Head (Kylie) with Cathy Dennis, herself a briefly shining star of yesteryear. I fear you're missing the point of pop. It's meant to be throwaway. It's meant to be performed by bright young things of today, many of whom go on to be the writers and producers of tomorrow, most of whom fade away into obscurity with nothing but their memories of having a f.cking great time. Would you write off someone like Trevor Horn just because Buggles only had one big hit? Your mind is stuck in a 70s rock rut - not every act is destined to churn out thirty albums of steadily declining quality. The epitomy of pop is the one-hit-wonder and long may it continue. Signatureogden GSX-R750 K4 RGV250 VJ22 >I fear you're missing the point of pop. It's meant to be throwaway. It's >meant to be performed by bright young things of today, many of whom go >on to be the writers and producers of tomorrow, most of whom fade away >into obscurity with nothing but their memories of having a f.cking great >time. That's a fair point. The music business is pretty broad, and I'm not anti the frothy stuff. But I don't think being part of the froth means you've achieved anything - certainly not enough for me to be interested in hearing you interviewed (to drag things back to the original point) >Your mind is stuck in a 70s rock rut - not every act is destined to >churn out thirty albums of steadily declining quality. Stinky bait - is that what you think of acts like The Killers, Kaiser Chiefs, Goldfrapp... >The epitomy of >pop is the one-hit-wonder and long may it continue. OK, when you put on some music, do you play "Now That's What I Call One Hit Wonders 27"? I doubt it. I'll bet you put on something by an artist who has a recording career. I'll also bet that artist was significantly involved in writing the material. SignatureChamp Two standard issue crutches To email me, neal at my domain should work. > > The epitomy of > > pop is the one-hit-wonder and long may it continue. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > artist who has a recording career. I'll also bet that artist was > significantly involved in writing the material. The case for the defence: http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.rec.motorcycles/msg/7d68a2ff2eaa2e67 SignatureChris > Stinky bait - is that what you think of acts like The Killers, Kaiser > Chiefs, Goldfrapp... Goldfrapp is good, Kaiser Chiefs ok, the others Killers, Arctic Monkeys et al are derivative and seemed to be the standard bearers for the 30 something generation who need to be told what to like. Unimaginative, new build home dwelling consumers - dullards in other words. However, as I still consider The Fall as the standard by all whom are judged my opinion on these matters is probably quite subjective. SignatureSimon In the referenced article, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk> writes: >Unimaginative, new build home dwelling consumers - dullards in other >words. It seems to me that previous generational tribes revolved around one's own youthful musical/cultural concerns (mods, rockers, teds, punks, ravers, etc). Any attempt to forge an identity based on where your parents were in life would have resulted in mockery and social death, everywhere outside the Bullingdon Club. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/nov/16/barbara-ellen-teenagers-comment SignatureDifferenza fra il rivoluzionaro e il cialtrone. Il rivoluzionario rompe l'orologio e invece di presentarsi alle nove si presenta alle nove meno cinque. Il cialtrone rompe l'orologio e si alza alle undici. Michael Carley: http://people.bath.ac.uk/ensmjc/ >> Stinky bait - is that what you think of acts like The Killers, Kaiser >> Chiefs, Goldfrapp... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Unimaginative, new build home dwelling consumers - dullards in other > words. That's pretty close to a "buys his own furniture" remark. > However, as I still consider The Fall as the standard by all whom are > judged my opinion on these matters is probably quite subjective. Hippy. >> Stinky bait - is that what you think of acts like The Killers, Kaiser >> Chiefs, Goldfrapp... > >Goldfrapp is good, Kaiser Chiefs ok, the others Killers, Arctic Monkeys >et al are derivative and seemed to be the standard bearers for the 30 >something generation who need to be told what to like. I was holding them up for critique, I just picked 3 recent bands off the top of my head. SignatureChamp Two standard issue crutches To email me, neal at my domain should work. > >Your mind is stuck in a 70s rock rut - not every act is destined to > >churn out thirty albums of steadily declining quality. > > Stinky bait - is that what you think of acts like The Killers, Kaiser > Chiefs, Goldfrapp... The Killers and the Kaiser chiefs didn't have very far to decline in the first place. > >The epitomy of > >pop is the one-hit-wonder and long may it continue. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > artist who has a recording career. I'll also bet that artist was > significantly involved in writing the material. I don't listen to much pop so I'm not really an appropriate case study. Signatureogden GSX-R750 K4 RGV250 VJ22 >>It hasn't changed that much. Mickie Most wasn't that different to >>Simon Cowell. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > wasn't the comedy circuit that there is now - I doubt any one with > comic aspirations would be seen dead near a talent show nowadays. There was definitely a comedy circuit in the 70s & 80s. Mostly fuelled by the cabaret circuit in working men's clubs, Pontins etc. Lenny Henry would never have received a booking. There are comic talent shows nowadays. Google shows many clubs with open mic sessions. Then there are festivals such as the Edinburgh Fringe where the likes of Simon Amstell come to the fore by winning a Perrier Award. > The modern talent shows do turn out people who can sing, I'll grant > you that. But, you need a lot more than a voice to be successful, as > Joss Stone has demonstrated. These singers - whose songs are they > going to sing? If they don't write their own material, they'll just > be Callow's caged song birds, dependent on the writers he employs. I > doubt any of them will have real long term careers. There's a lot of truth in what you say. However, you don't need to be a songwriter or composer to have an enduring career as a performer. Again, the chap that started this sub-thread, demonstrates that not all of the winners end up as Callow's pawns. I'm no big fan of his music but I know he co-writes his songs. He's also co-starred in a film with Bob Hoskins and Dame Judi Dench. According to speculation on wikipedia, he'll be on Question Time soon. I think he'll be around for a while as he seems to be quite shrewd about the projects he gets involved with. Signaturewessie at tesco dot net BMW R1150GS >>> It hasn't changed that much. Mickie Most wasn't that different to >>> Simon Cowell. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > for a while as he seems to be quite shrewd about the projects he gets > involved with. FFS get a grip. Cowell, not Callow. From Champ, it may be excusable. "platypus" <monotreme@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in news:BCoUk.89226$E41.26329 @text.news.virginmedia.com: > FFS get a grip. Cowell, not Callow. From Champ, it may be excusable. Sobriety is a bad thing. Signaturewessie at tesco dot net BMW R1150GS > These singers - whose songs are they >going to sing? My recommendation would be Cole Porter. Can't beat it. >If they don't write their own material, they'll just >be Callow's caged song birds, dependent on the writers he employs. I >doubt any of them will have real long term careers. Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin and Matt Monro didn't write much of their own stuff (if any). They did okay. >> These singers - whose songs are they >>going to sing? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin and Matt Monro didn't write much of their >own stuff (if any). They did okay. heh. That's different. Up until the Beatles it was OK to sing other people's songs. They broke the mould. SignatureChamp Two standard issue crutches To email me, neal at my domain should work. In communiqué <v515i4plnir6m3i48oi643hefg5snavg2b@4ax.com>, Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> cast forth these pearls of wisdom >>> These singers - whose songs are they >>>going to sing? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >heh. That's different. Up until the Beatles it was OK to sing other >people's songs. They broke the mould. Who were influenced by Buddy Holly no? Signature+----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pete Fisher at Home: Peter@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk | | Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest * 2 Yamaha WR250Z | | Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ > >>Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin and Matt Monro didn't write much of their > >>own stuff (if any). They did okay. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Who were influenced by Buddy Holly no? Not really, they did a lot of Chuck Berry stuff until they started writing. Signature03 GS500 68 Bantam D14S On Nov 18, 10:15 am, c...@NOSPAM.netunix.com wrote: > > >>Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin and Matt Monro didn't write much of their > > >>own stuff (if any). They did okay. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Not really, they did a lot of Chuck Berry stuff until they started writing. Who did - The Beatles or Buddy Holly and the Crickets? I think you will find the Beatles are on record as citing Holly as an influence. Not their only one, clearly. In any case Chuck Berry is a good example of a singer/songwriter long before them. PF In the referenced article, Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> writes: >heh. That's different. Up until the Beatles it was OK to sing other >people's songs. They broke the mould. Six of the fourteen songs on their first album, six of the fourteen on their second album and six of the fourteen on their fourth album were written by other people. CBA to check the rest. SignatureDifferenza fra il rivoluzionaro e il cialtrone. Il rivoluzionario rompe l'orologio e invece di presentarsi alle nove si presenta alle nove meno cinque. Il cialtrone rompe l'orologio e si alza alle undici. Michael Carley: http://people.bath.ac.uk/ensmjc/ >In the referenced article, Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> writes: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >their second album and six of the fourteen on their fourth album were >written by other people. CBA to check the rest. The point is still valid, though. Even as a new band, more than half their recorded material was self-written. This was indeed mould-breaking, and helped open the door to the ideas that gave rise to the pop/rock explosion of the 60s and 70s. Up until their time 90%+ of hit records were simply a singer, or group, performing songs selected, and as instructed, by management. That model probably accounted for less than 50% by the 70s, and of course the proportional change is even more marked if we look at Albums rather than singles. Signature_______ .'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com) \`\ | /`/ `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10 `\|/` ` In the referenced article, Ace <b.rogers@ifrance.com> writes: >>Six of the fourteen songs on their first album, six of the fourteen >>on their second album and six of the fourteen on their fourth album >>were written by other people. CBA to check the rest. >The point is still valid, though. Even as a new band, more than half >their recorded material was self-written. This was indeed >mould-breaking, and helped open the door to the ideas that gave rise >to the pop/rock explosion of the 60s and 70s. In that case, the mould was broken by Chuck Berry or by the late-40s, early-50s Chicago blues bands (Muddy Waters et al.) who were the original rock and roll bands, or by the Sun Records singer-songwriters (Carl Perkins, Johnny Cash, Roy Orbison). SignatureDifferenza fra il rivoluzionaro e il cialtrone. Il rivoluzionario rompe l'orologio e invece di presentarsi alle nove si presenta alle nove meno cinque. Il cialtrone rompe l'orologio e si alza alle undici. Michael Carley: http://people.bath.ac.uk/ensmjc/ >In the referenced article, Ace <b.rogers@ifrance.com> writes: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >original rock and roll bands, or by the Sun Records singer-songwriters >(Carl Perkins, Johnny Cash, Roy Orbison). Well, black performers in the 50s were not listened to by a white audience. It was only after British bands re-exported black music to the US that they were able to enter the mainstream. SignatureChamp What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R600 racer (for sale) | ZX10R racer (broken) neal at champ dot org dot uk In the referenced article, Champ <news@champ.org.uk> writes: >Well, black performers in the 50s were not listened to by a white >audience. It was only after British bands re-exported black music to >the US that they were able to enter the mainstream. Johnny Cash, Roy Orbison and Carl Perkins (and Hank Williams) were not black. SignatureDifferenza fra il rivoluzionaro e il cialtrone. Il rivoluzionario rompe l'orologio e invece di presentarsi alle nove si presenta alle nove meno cinque. Il cialtrone rompe l'orologio e si alza alle undici. Michael Carley: http://people.bath.ac.uk/ensmjc/ >In the referenced article, Champ <news@champ.org.uk> writes: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Johnny Cash, Roy Orbison and Carl Perkins (and Hank Williams) were not >black. Really? Everyday's a school day. OK, for every trend, counter examples can be found. Do you disagree with my general point that mainstream popular singers *generally* did not write their own material in the 50s, and the *most significant* band that changed that was the Beatles? SignatureChamp What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R600 racer (for sale) | ZX10R racer (broken) neal at champ dot org dot uk In the referenced article, Champ <news@champ.org.uk> writes: >Do you disagree with my general point that mainstream popular singers >*generally* did not write their own material in the 50s, and the >*most significant* band that changed that was the Beatles? Yes. I don't think that the bulk of acts now write most of their own material, although I don't have the data to check. SignatureDifferenza fra il rivoluzionaro e il cialtrone. Il rivoluzionario rompe l'orologio e invece di presentarsi alle nove si presenta alle nove meno cinque. Il cialtrone rompe l'orologio e si alza alle undici. Michael Carley: http://people.bath.ac.uk/ensmjc/ >In the referenced article, Champ <news@champ.org.uk> writes: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Yes. I don't think that the bulk of acts now write most of their own >material, although I don't have the data to check. When you look at the creative work that goes into modern mainstream music acts: * lyrics * tune * arrangements * playing the instruments * constructing the instruments * singing * recording * mixing * mastering * artwork * advertising * stage show & lighting * choreography * clothing * music video * interviews * blogging it's very difficult to say any of it truly single-author. SignatureCB500 (blue + flies) >>In the referenced article, Champ <news@champ.org.uk> writes: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > *generally* did not write their own material in the 50s, and the *most > significant* band that changed that was the Beatles? I'd say The Beatles are most overrated band of all time and they did cast a long shadow, unfortunately. Signaturep BotM#1 LotR#9 blog: <http://prawnuk.blogspot.com> > I'd say The Beatles are most overrated band of all time and they did cast > a long shadow, unfortunately. <fx: anticipates death threat heading your way from Ace's direction> I don't agree that they were overrated, but I do think most of their output was crap. -- d. >> I'd say The Beatles are most overrated band of all time and they did cast >> a long shadow, unfortunately. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I don't agree that they were overrated, but I do think most of their >output was crap. <shrugs> You're entitled to your opinion... even if it is wrong. Signature_______ .'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com) \`\ | /`/ `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10 `\|/` ` > >> I'd say The Beatles are most overrated band of all time and they did cast > >> a long shadow, unfortunately. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > even if it is wrong. heh. You have to remember, by the time I was of an age to appreciated music (say, 1977) the Beatles were a spent force. Looking at it retrospectively, whatever was "special" about them was not apparent to me, particularly in comparison with what had happened since. Of course, if one were to study it properly, maybe their brilliance would be revealed, but most of there songs just struck me as (for early stuff) twee and silly and (for later stuff) deliberately odd and silly. I can't think of a single Beatles song that I couldn't bear to never hear again. The Stones on the other hand... -- d. <The Beatles> >> >I don't agree that they were overrated, but I do think most of their >> >output was crap. >> You're entitled to your opinion... >> >> even if it is wrong. >You have to remember, by the time I was of an age to appreciated music >(say, 1977) the Beatles were a spent force. Looking at it >retrospectively, whatever was "special" about them was not apparent to >me, particularly in comparison with what had happened since. I used to think exactly the same. But then I managed to put their work in context, and realised that they really did have a huge influence. >Of course, if one were to study it properly, maybe their brilliance >would be revealed, but most of there songs just struck me as (for >early stuff) twee and silly and (for later stuff) deliberately odd and >silly. I don't *like* the early stuff much, but I still realise its significance. >I can't think of a single Beatles song that I couldn't bear to never >hear again. I can think of a few. Day in the Life and I Am the Walrus are probably top of the list. >The Stones on the other hand... Y'see, I generally *like* the Stones a lot more than the Beatles, but I wouldn't argue that they were more important/significant. Sympathy for the Devil would be top of my "couldn't bear not to hear again" list. SignatureChamp What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R600 racer (for sale) | ZX10R racer (broken) neal at champ dot org dot uk > >You have to remember, by the time I was of an age to appreciated music > >(say, 1977) the Beatles were a spent force. Looking at it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > work in context, and realised that they really did have a huge > influence. oh, I'm not saying they didn't have a huge influence. Moving forward 25 years or so, "Soul II Soul" had a "huge influence" on the popular music of the late 80s/early 90s. But I think they're sh.t, and I'm 99.9% sure you'd agree (if you've even heard of them). > >Of course, if one were to study it properly, maybe their brilliance > >would be revealed, but most of there songs just struck me as (for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I don't *like* the early stuff much, but I still realise its > significance. I wasn't meaning to get into the "significance" argument. I'd signed up for the "intrinsic worth" argument. > >I can't think of a single Beatles song that I couldn't bear to never > >hear again. > > I can think of a few. Day in the Life and I Am the Walrus are > probably top of the list. I can't even think what "Day in the Life" sounds like, and my experience of "I Am the Walrus" has been permanently sullied by Oasis. > >The Stones on the other hand... > > Y'see, I generally *like* the Stones a lot more than the Beatles, but > I wouldn't argue that they were more important/significant. Sympathy > for the Devil would be top of my "couldn't bear not to hear again" > list. Exactly. The Stones were just "better" than the Beatles. In addition to "Sympathy for the Devil", I could add loads more "must not lose" Stones songs. Of course, this is me, so I can't let a music thread go by without a bit of pretentiousness: "Of course, forgetting the Beatles and the Stones, the best band of the '60s was undoubtably the MC5". -- d. -- d. > oh, I'm not saying they didn't have a huge influence. Moving forward 25 > years or so, "Soul II Soul" had a "huge influence" on the popular music > of the late 80s/early 90s. But I think they're sh.t, and I'm 99.9% sure > you'd agree (if you've even heard of them). Quite. Run DMC and NWA[1] came to mind when I was thinking similar. [1] Who got the reference in Hot Fuzz? Signaturep BotM#1 LotR#9 blog: <http://prawnuk.blogspot.com> > > oh, I'm not saying they didn't have a huge influence. Moving forward 25 > > years or so, "Soul II Soul" had a "huge influence" on the popular music > > of the late 80s/early 90s. But I think they're sh.t, and I'm 99.9% sure > > you'd agree (if you've even heard of them). > > Quite. Run DMC and NWA[1] came to mind when I was thinking similar. ah - I am at that certain age where I have quite fond memories of early Run DMC and Beastie Boys output, though latterly of course it all turned to sh.t. Actually, the early stuff was sh.t too, really. > [1] Who got the reference in Hot Fuzz? did anyone not? -- d. >>> oh, I'm not saying they didn't have a huge influence. Moving forward 25 >>> years or so, "Soul II Soul" had a "huge influence" on the popular music [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > did anyone not? Probably me as I have no idea what you're on about. SignatureEiron. > ah - I am at that certain age where I have quite fond memories of early > Run DMC and Beastie Boys output, though latterly of course it all turned > to sh.t. Actually, the early stuff was sh.t too, really. <stares at shoes> I still like the Beasties' later output. >> [1] Who got the reference in Hot Fuzz? > > did anyone not? One or two, I imagine. Signaturep BotM#1 LotR#9 blog: <http://prawnuk.blogspot.com> > > > oh, I'm not saying they didn't have a huge influence. Moving > > > forward 25 years or so, "Soul II Soul" had a "huge influence" on [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > early Run DMC and Beastie Boys output, though latterly of course it > all turned to sh.t. Actually, the early stuff was sh.t too, really. <small voice> I quite liked Ill Communication </small voice> On Nov 19, 8:47 pm, "Simon Gates" <simian@in_valid.semi-evolved.org> wrote: > > > > oh, I'm not saying they didn't have a huge influence. Moving > > > > forward 25 years or so, "Soul II Soul" had a "huge influence" on [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > </small voice> oh, I liked it at the time, but I wouldn't consider listening to it now. I'm currently mostly listening to the latest Ulrich Schnauss. -- d. > Of course, this is me, so I can't let a music thread go by without a > bit of pretentiousness: "Of course, forgetting the Beatles and the > Stones, the best band of the '60s was undoubtably the MC5". No, the best band of the sixties was the Shangri-Las. SignatureEiron. >> Of course, this is me, so I can't let a music thread go by without a >> bit of pretentiousness: "Of course, forgetting the Beatles and the >> Stones, the best band of the '60s was undoubtably the MC5". > > No, the best band of the sixties was the Shangri-Las. ITYM "King Crimson". Or possibly - Iron Butterfly[1]. Phil. [1] Makers of the song "In-a-gadda-da-vida". Probably the first ever Prog song released commercially. SignaturePhil Launchbury, IT PHB 'I'm training the bats that live in my cube to juggle mushrooms' >> I don't *like* the early stuff much, but I still realise its >> significance. > >I wasn't meaning to get into the "significance" argument. I'd signed >up for the "intrinsic worth" argument. Ah. My mistake. But the two are difficult to separate - it's hard to imagine a piece of work that has a lot of significant worth, but little significance. One of the ways we measure 'worth' is by impact on the medium. >I can't even think what "Day in the Life" sounds like #I read the news today, oh boy... >Of course, this is me, so I can't let a music thread go by without a >bit of pretentiousness: "Of course, forgetting the Beatles and the >Stones, the best band of the '60s was undoubtably the MC5". "Best", or "most significant"? :-) In that the MC5 set the pattern for much of the music of the 70s, then I'd agree they were significant. But, I generally much prefer the music of the people who followed them than the MC5 themselves. SignatureChamp What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R600 racer (for sale) | ZX10R racer (broken) neal at champ dot org dot uk >>I can't even think what "Day in the Life" sounds like > >#I read the news today, oh boy... #woke up, got out of bed, dragged a comb across my head... Signature_______ .'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com) \`\ | /`/ `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10 `\|/` ` > >> I don't *like* the early stuff much, but I still realise its > >> significance. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > little significance. One of the ways we measure 'worth' is by impact > on the medium. sure. I can think of counter-examples though: how good-v-influential (on popular music as a whole, as opposed to in their own genre) were: Miles Davis, Frank Zappa, Can, Tangerine Dream, The Cocteau Twins etc. etc. > >I can't even think what "Day in the Life" sounds like > > #I read the news today, oh boy... well, that line is familiar, but I can't place it into the context of the overall song. > >Of course, this is me, so I can't let a music thread go by without a > >bit of pretentiousness: "Of course, forgetting the Beatles and the > >Stones, the best band of the '60s was undoubtably the MC5". > > "Best", or "most significant"? :-) heh. > In that the MC5 set the pattern for much of the music of the 70s, then > I'd agree they were significant. But, I generally much prefer the > music of the people who followed them than the MC5 themselves. "Kick out the Jams" is the best rock song, ever. -- d. >> In that the MC5 set the pattern for much of the music of the 70s, then >> I'd agree they were significant. But, I generally much prefer the >> music of the people who followed them than the MC5 themselves. > >"Kick out the Jams" is the best rock song, ever. <irrevocably disqualifies self from argument> I like the Blue Oyster Cult version... SignatureChamp What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R600 racer (for sale) | ZX10R racer (broken) neal at champ dot org dot uk >>> In that the MC5 set the pattern for much of the music of the 70s, >>> then I'd agree they were significant. But, I generally much prefer [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I like the Blue Oyster Cult version... Starship at full belt, twinned with a facefull of good uncut Dutch acid on microdots, took a *lot* of beating SignatureHog '06 ST4-S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400 '81 R65 Outfit Darsy spoke: > sure. I can think of counter-examples though: how good-v-influential > (on popular music as a whole, as opposed to in their own genre) were: > Miles Davis, Frank Zappa, Can, Tangerine Dream, The Cocteau Twins etc. > etc. *Can* ? Popular Music? Sorry, I can't get my head around that concept at *all* SignatureRob_P UKRM(at)indqualtec.co.uk uppercase(d) BBIWYMC#1 BOG#11? MRO#31 IBCDBBB#1(kotl) FJ1200, CCM130 Benelli Cabiolet Easily confused. > Darsy spoke: >> sure. I can think of counter-examples though: how good-v-influential [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > *Can* ? Popular Music? Sorry, I can't get my head around that concept > at *all* Neu! There. I said it. :-) Signaturep BotM#1 LotR#9 blog: <http://prawnuk.blogspot.com> > Darsy spoke: >> sure. I can think of counter-examples though: how good-v-influential [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > *Can* ? Popular Music? Sorry, I can't get my head around that concept > at *all* This is rather good - http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/alex_f1/alex Not actually by Can but they were the backing band and produced it. SignatureEiron. > "Kick out the Jams" is the best rock song, ever. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6YfFF6gPj9g > > "Kick out the Jams" is the best rock song, ever. > > http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6YfFF6gPj9g I've never heard that before. Heard *about* it, but not actually heard it. Thanks :) Parody rocks, sometimes. Woof woof. Signature2002 Yamaha R1 Saab Aero Sport platypus <monotreme@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote the following literary masterpiece: >http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6YfFF6gPj9g Zappa wrote some amazing songs but he's a f.cking talentless twat when it comes to guitar solos. You'd have thought someone would have told him... SignatureVeggie Dave http://www.iq18films.co.uk "To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin." Cardinal Bellarmine >platypus <monotreme@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote the following literary >masterpiece: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >You'd have thought someone would have told him... When it's your band, people tend not to tell you such things. SignatureChamp Two standard issue crutches To email me, neal at my domain should work. > platypus <monotreme@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote the following literary > masterpiece: >>http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6YfFF6gPj9g > > Zappa wrote some amazing songs but he's a f.cking talentless twat when > it comes to guitar solos. <thinks> Well, Watermelon in Easter Hay was OK. Otherwise, he was a little esoteric. Signaturep BotM#1 LotR#9 blog: <http://prawnuk.blogspot.com> >I wasn't meaning to get into the "significance" argument. I'd signed >up for the "intrinsic worth" argument. "Ear of the beholder" and all that. There are whole genres of music that I think are crap, but that doesn't stop some misguided people thinking it has some intrinsic value. >Of course, this is me, so I can't let a music thread go by without a >bit of pretentiousness: "Of course, forgetting the Beatles and the >Stones, the best band of the '60s was undoubtably the MC5". You've already ruled yourself out of the "knowing anything about 60s music" team, so you'll have to say who you're quoting and let them argue the case themselves. Signature_______ .'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com) \`\ | /`/ `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10 `\|/` ` > >Of course, this is me, so I can't let a music thread go by without a > >bit of pretentiousness: "Of course, forgetting the Beatles and the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > music" team, so you'll have to say who you're quoting and let them > argue the case themselves. I was quoting myself being pretentious, you twat. -- d. >> >Of course, this is me, so I can't let a music thread go by without a >> >bit of pretentiousness: "Of course, forgetting the Beatles and the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >I was quoting myself being pretentious, you twat. We don't need quotes to know you're being pretentious. Signature_______ .'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com) \`\ | /`/ `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10 `\|/` ` > Of course, this is me, so I can't let a music thread go by without a > bit of pretentiousness: "Of course, forgetting the Beatles and the > Stones, the best band of the '60s was undoubtably the MC5". The Monks SignatureSimon > > Of course, this is me, so I can't let a music thread go by without a > > bit of pretentiousness: "Of course, forgetting the Beatles and the > > Stones, the best band of the '60s was undoubtably the MC5". > > The Monks you're such a dweeb. -- d. > > > Of course, this is me, so I can't let a music thread go by without a > > > bit of pretentiousness: "Of course, forgetting the Beatles and the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > you're such a dweeb. I'm not entirely sure what this means. SignatureSimon >>I can't think of a single Beatles song that I couldn't bear to never >>hear again. > >I can think of a few. Day in the Life and I Am the Walrus are >probably top of the list. Hmmm. The whole of the Double-White Album (apart from "Revolution 9"). And Abbey Road. Most of Sgt Pepper... Actually, now I think about it, probably about 50% of their stuff falls into that category for me. I must sit down and listen to it all again... Signature_______ .'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com) \`\ | /`/ `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10 `\|/` ` Ace spoke: > Hmmm. The whole of the Double-White Album (apart from "Revolution 9"). > And Abbey Road. Most of Sgt Pepper... I'm glad you popped up with this - although recently listening to R9 I found it less weird than I used to. Then again one of my favourite white tracks is Rocky Raccoon. > Actually, now I think about it, probably about 50% of their stuff > falls into that category for me. I must sit down and listen to it all > again... I also downloaded a lot of Stones stuff recently onto my Zen, and cleared a lot of it off - probably like maybe 25% of the stones output. SignatureRob_P UKRM(at)indqualtec.co.uk uppercase(d) BBIWYMC#1 BOG#11? MRO#31 IBCDBBB#1(kotl) FJ1200, CCM130 Benelli Cabiolet Easily confused. >Ace spoke: >> Hmmm. The whole of the Double-White Album (apart from "Revolution 9"). >> And Abbey Road. Most of Sgt Pepper... > >I'm glad you popped up with this - although recently listening to R9 I >found it less weird than I used to. I never really thought it wierd, just boring and long. >Then again one of my favourite white tracks is Rocky Raccoon. (One of) mine too, as it happens. Then again, they're all my favourites. Signature_______ .'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com) \`\ | /`/ `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10 `\|/` ` >You have to remember, by the time I was of an age to appreciated music >(say, 1977) the Beatles were a spent force. Looking at it >retrospectively, whatever was "special" about them was not apparent to >me, particularly in comparison with what had happened since. I think the work that the Beatles did in terms of pushing forward the techniques of studio recording - multitracking, overdubbing, experimental use of instruments and miking techniques - was tremendously important. SignatureCB500 (blue + flies) |
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