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Motorcycle Forum / General / Yamaha / September 2007XS1100LG Dipstick?
I just bought a somewhat neglected bike, and was kinda wondering how the heck you can tell how much oil it has/needs. Is there a dipstick I can make or something? If anyone's interested, it's a 1980 Midnight Special, runs well at higher RPM's, but won't idle worth a damn. All I have to do is fix that, and, um, everything else, and it'll be good as new. heh Not bad for $300. Anyway, if anybody can offer a bit of wisdom, I'd appreciate it. I don't want to mess with anything until I get the fluids right. Thanks, CS >I just bought a somewhat neglected bike, and was kinda wondering how the >heck you can tell how much oil it has/needs. Look at the sight glass when the motorcycle is standing upright, but not on the center stand. There may be a level line or a witness hole in a sheetmetal disk behind the glass. If there is a witness hole, the oil level should be at the hole. http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/ShowSchematic.aspx?deptId=6 50122&machineId=8242 #24: GAUGE,LEVEL (this is not a very good drawing of the sight glass which is in the clutch cover, it shows the sight glass from the inside of the cover where no human could see it.) http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/ShowSchematic.aspx?deptId=6 35650&machineId=8242 #31: OIL PRESS SWCH ASY will cause the oil pressure light to come on when there's no oil pressure. >Is there a dipstick I can make or something? I haven't seen a motorcycle with a dipstick in 40 years, unless it's a Harley and has one in the oil tank. >If anyone's interested, it's a 1980 Midnight Special, runs well at higher >RPM's, but won't idle worth a damn. All I have to do is fix that, and, um, >everything else, and it'll be good as new. heh Go to Wal*Mart or any good auto parts store and buy a 15-oz can of Berryman B12 Chemtool Choke and Carburetor Cleaner. Put about 5 or 6 ounces of the liquid B12 into a full tank of gas and go for a ride to clean out the idle jets and idle passages. But, before you take that ride, find the idle speed adjustment screw so you can turn the idle speed of all four carburetors down at the same time. As the B12 cleans the gum and varnish out of the carbs, the engine will begin to idle too fast if some previous owner has turned the speed up to compensate for dirty carbs. http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/ShowSchematic.aspx?deptId=6 41949&machineId=8242 #13 (I think this is the master idle screw that adjusts all 4 carbs at the same time.) >>I just bought a somewhat neglected bike, and was kinda wondering how the >>heck you can tell how much oil it has/needs. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/ShowSchematic.aspx?deptId=6 35650&machineId=8242 Found the sight glass! Thanks! > #31: OIL PRESS SWCH ASY will cause the oil pressure light to come on when > there's no oil pressure. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > #13 (I think this is the master idle screw that adjusts all 4 carbs at the > same time.) Great tips! Thanks again! If I can get this thing running well, I'll start restoring the rest. CS >>>I just bought a somewhat neglected bike, and was kinda wondering how the >>>heck you can tell how much oil it has/needs. [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > >CS you got a bargain on a great bike. try to stick with factory stock as much as you can. IF your idea is the keep a classic. if you bought it for a real rider, update all the safety stuff you can. 27 years has added some real safety. i love old bikes and go both ways. the classic restos are ridden differently. usually a lot more gently. >>>>I just bought a somewhat neglected bike, and was kinda wondering how the >>>>heck you can tell how much oil it has/needs. [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > safety. i love old bikes and go both ways. the classic restos are ridden > differently. usually a lot more gently. This bike will be a rider. By "restore" I mean restoring this bike to safe and reliable operation, and if possible, make it look good. I'll be throwing on new shocks and springs, brakes, stainless brake lines, and whatever else I can update/afford. When first sold this bike was called the Midnight Special. It had black chrome and black paint on most everything. I'm not going to fool around with all that. Some regular chrome, a slightly more moderate paint scheme, well, I'm getting a bit ahead of myself. Gotta get the thing running first. CS >This bike will be a rider. By "restore" I mean restoring this bike to safe >and reliable operation, and if possible, make it look good. I'll be >throwing on new shocks and springs, brakes, stainless brake lines, and >whatever else I can update/afford. This guy is passionate about XS11's. http://www.merriamcycle.com/ If I had an Excessive-1100, I would be looking for wider wheels and tires to put on it, even if I had to lace up a set of spoke wheels. The front wheel would be at least a 2.50 X 18.00. Your bike probably needs shocks, I do not recommend Progressive Suspension front springs unless you have the patience to fiddle with the fork oil level. PS makes the same spring for various forks, and they have never installed their springs in all possible forks, so they cannot tell you what the oil level should be. They just give a ball park figure of about 130~140 mm as I recall. I had to adjust the oil level in my GSXR750 three times, and my GS1100 forks were never right after putting PS forks springs in it. I do not recommend Dynojet kits, I believe an intelligent rider can do anything he needs to a Mikuni carburetor by drilling out the EPA anti-tamper plugs (if it has them) and tweaking the idle mixture screws by 1/4 to 1/2 a turn. I do not recommend removing the stock airbox or installing K&N separate filters. A single element K&N replacement filter that goes in the airbox is the way to go. I just wash the element in kerosene and never use K&N filter oil. >When first sold this bike was called the Midnight Special. It had black >chrome and black paint on most everything. I'm not going to fool around >with all that. Some regular chrome, a slightly more moderate paint scheme, >well, I'm getting a bit ahead of myself. Gotta get the thing running first. Yamaha was believing that Americans wanted custom motorcycles back in those days, and Kawasaki and Honda were going along with all the frou frou styling with anodized parts and black chrome and Midnight Specials and Radians and Fazers, etc. Yamaha sent its market researchers out to the motorcycle hangouts and asked us what we wanted. Many riders told Yamaha that they wanted a Japanese Harley, so Yamaha killed off the XS11 and came out with the V-twin Virago line, and Honda and Suzuki came out with their Custom and "L" models, but riders who could afford a Harley bought Harlies and the Yamaha dealers who stocked up on Yamahas were stuck with them for two or three years. >>>>>I just bought a somewhat neglected bike, and was kinda wondering how the >>>>>heck you can tell how much oil it has/needs. [quoted text clipped - 87 lines] > >CS you're a man after my own heart. make it safe first, then spiff it up but above all ride it! if you ever come near mojave or death valley, i'll show you the most beautiful places on the planet. riding in death valley is awesome and not at all unsafe despite the name. you don't ride during the day in june-september, but the rest of the year is fine. keep us updated on your resto. and come visit. if you can take pictures of the process, post them in a.b.test. you can't but them here because this is a text group. have fun.... >>>>>>I just bought a somewhat neglected bike, and was kinda wondering how the >>>>>>heck you can tell how much oil it has/needs. [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] >them here because this is a text group. >have fun.... Check out this great web site - www.xs11.com. everything you need to know about these fantastic bikes. Excellent tech tips, and an active discussion forum filled with helpful folks. If you can't find the answer there the question hasn't been asked yet. You will need to pull the carbs and clean them to get it to run right, no way around that. DO NOT SOAK THEM in carb cleaner. It ruins the carb butterfly shaft seals. The bike won't run righ if they leak and they are a bitch to replace. BTW, don't scrap any of those MNS parts, the gold stuff and black chrome go for good $$ on ebay. Once you get it running right make sure you HOLD ON TIGHT when you give it some throttle. It's usually love at first twist. I will have an xs11 till the day I die. good luck >>In article <13dteqv12kva6df@corp.supernews.com>, "CS" <idontwork@fcc.gov> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 121 lines] > >good luck they are so much fun, perky acceleration, great cornering and even drags go well. you got a deal and i envy you. <snip> > they are so much fun, perky acceleration, great cornering and even drags > go > well. you got a deal and i envy you. Thanks! I hope I can find out soon, once I get this bugger running right. CS >>>> In article <13dsapj1671off3@corp.supernews.com>, "CS" >>>> <idontwork@fcc.gov> [quoted text clipped - 140 lines] > > good luck Thanks for the tips! I have a question. There are two petcocks. Do I need to have both on when the bike is running? I believe they each feed two of the carbs, but this seems silly to me. I've tried running with both on, one on, and the other on, but the darn thing runs so lousy I can't tell which is better! heh I found a shop to do the carbs for $225, including the sync. Twenty years ago I tried synchronizing two brand new carbs on a VW, and as far as I know, they STILL aren't running right, so I consider this a bargain. All I have to do is get it over there. CS >I have a question. There are two petcocks. Do I need to have both on when >the bike is running? I believe they each feed two of the carbs, but this >seems silly to me. I've tried running with both on, one on, and the other >on, but the darn thing runs so lousy I can't tell which is better! heh Look to see if there is a straight short rubber hose connecting the pairs of carbs together. http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/ShowSchematic.aspx?deptId=6 46152&machineId=8242 39: DIAPHRAGM ASY It looks like Yamaha didn't have vacuum operated petcocks, so they hooked up two manual petcocks to a diaphragm assembly that acts as some kind of automatic shutoff. Weird. >I found a shop to do the carbs for $225, including the sync. Twenty years >ago I tried synchronizing two brand new carbs on a VW, and as far as I know, >they STILL aren't running right, so I consider this a bargain. You work for the federal gummint? You would consider that a bargain. But carburetor synchronization is a money making SCAM for mechanics that want to charge you $100 every 10K miles to do something absolutely unnecessary. In 44 years of riding, I have NEVER paid a shop mechanic to clean, synchronize or otherwise adjust a motorcycle carburetor. When the carbs get dirty, the engine runs rough, smart a.s mechanics synchronize the carbs without a proper cleaning, then you ride the bike and alcohol additives in fresh gasoline clean the crud out of the carbs and they are out of synch again because the mechanic has fiddled around with the synchronization screws. http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/ShowSchematic.aspx?deptId=6 41949&machineId=8242 53: IDLE JET (It may or may not have cross-drilled air emulsion holes to premix gas and air. If you try to remove it for cleaning, be sure you have a small slot screw driver that fits perfectly.) 55: JET HOLDER (It has air emulsion holes that premix air and gasoline for smoother operation.It can be removed by pushing it up out of the carb body 57: JET,MAIN #110 (Main jets rarely get plugged up, but you can squirt carb cleaner through the hole.) 62: NEEDLE VALVE SET (You can remove the needle valve seat with a wrench to clean the little filter.) 63: O-RING 64: NET,FILTER The carburetor sucks gasoline from the float bowl through the idle jet. It sucks air through the pilot air jet, which is either in the intake of the carb, or underneath the big rubber diaphragm. Air and gas mix and then the idle mixture passage splits off. It goes to three transition ports that are supposed to be covered by the bottom edge of the throttle butterflies and it goes to the single idle mixture port which is controlled by the idle mixture screw. Each carb has one idle mixture screw on top of the carb in the round sprue that sticks up in front of the diaphragm cap. The screws are probably sealed with red goop. You can dig out the goop and turn the screws all the way clockwise until they seat lightly. Count the number of turns and write it down, then remove the idle mixture screws, saving the spring, washer and rubber o-ring, and put each set into a container so you won't mixt them up. Then you can spray Berryman B12 carb cleaner down the hole to clean out the idle port. When you spray B12 through the pilot air jet, it has to come out of the idle jet and out of the three transition ports. If it doesn't come out all the holes, put your fingers over the holes it does come out of, and keep spraying until you get a good flow of B12 out all those holes. Then you can reinstall each idle mixture screw, spring, washer, and o-ring into the carb it came out of and screw it down until it just barely stops turning. Then back out each screw the same number of turns you wrote down. >>I have a question. There are two petcocks. Do I need to have both on >>when [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > of > carbs together. There is. According to the diagram in Clymer's Yamaha book, it is NOT vacuum operated, but it's hard to tell for sure. I tried looking around in there, but I haven't had a chance to remove the fuel tank and get a good look. > http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/ShowSchematic.aspx?deptId=6 46152&machineId=8242 > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > You work for the federal gummint? You would consider that a bargain. Ouch!? heh > But carburetor synchronization is a money making SCAM for mechanics that > want > to charge you $100 every 10K miles to do something absolutely unnecessary. > > In 44 years of riding, I have NEVER paid a shop mechanic to clean, > synchronize or otherwise adjust a motorcycle carburetor. This mechanic seems to get a good reputation among the local riders and shops. The quote I was given is supposed to include R&R, complete tear down and rebuild, and tuning. I'll give it a go myself in a couple weeks, if I have time. Halloween is right around the corner. I want to get a set of gaskets for the carbs and petcocks before I start. I did get a can of carb cleaner with a dip basket. Some folks, including Clymer's manual, says I should soak the metal parts, while other folks say I should never even think about soaking anything ever. This leaves me slightly befuddled. Thanks for the instructions! CS >I did get a can of carb cleaner with a dip basket. Some folks, including >Clymer's manual, says I should soak the metal parts, while other folks say I >should never even think about soaking anything ever. This leaves me >slightly befuddled. If you bought the Berryman B9 stuff that contains stinky cresylic acid, take it back. That stuff is for cleaning funky old parts that have been covered with grease and rust for fifty years. Berryman B12 Chemtool Choke and Carburetor Cleaner comes in a handy pint can of liquid, or you can get it in the pressurized aerosol can. It contains toluene, acetone, methyl alcohol, etc, and that stuff dissolves gum and varnish rapidly. I'm sure you can find B12 at Wal*Mart or just about any auto parts store, but, if you don't happen to find it, buy GumOut or STP aerosol carburetor cleaner. Fuel system cleaners containing "petroleum distillates" are made to lubricate fuel injectors and Techron Concentrate is intended to remove intake valve deposits, so neither of those will do the job that B12 does. . >This mechanic seems to get a good reputation among the local riders and >shops. The quote I was given is supposed to include R&R, complete tear down >and rebuild, and tuning. There's a guy on Burbank Blvd that runs Crago Racing. Riders have recommended him. >I want to get a set of gaskets for the carbs and >petcocks before I start. https://www.carbkitscapital.com www.oldbikebarn.com >>>>> In article <13dsapj1671off3@corp.supernews.com>, "CS" >>>>> <idontwork@fcc.gov> [quoted text clipped - 155 lines] > >CS you really have to check out www.xs11.com I run both petcocks open. FYI the petcock handle points to the desired setting. Cleaning carbs is not that difficult and there are excellent articles explaining how to do it on that web site. I did mine in about 2 hrs. and the only new parts I needed were new needle valves and seats.There are two styles, rubber tipped for the newer xs11s and brass for the older style. They are available from lots of folks on ebay. Syncing made a big difference for my bike, it runs a lot better after a thorough cleaning and a sync. whatever you do don't let the shop soak them in carb cleaner. Hopefully they have an "old head" mechanic there who can work on your bike properly. good luck <snip> > you really have to check out www.xs11.com > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Syncing made a big difference for my bike, it runs a lot better after > a thorough cleaning and a sync. Thanks for the tips! > whatever you do don't let the shop soak them in carb cleaner. > Hopefully they have an "old head" mechanic there who can work on your > bike properly. Again, thanks for the tips, but I am confused about the whole soak/don't soak thing with carbs. CS Soaking the carbs in most carb cleaners with the seals or any other rubber in it, will distort or ruin the seal or rubber and cause more problems. > <snip> >> you really have to check out www.xs11.com [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > CS >you're a man after my own heart. make it safe first, then spiff it up but >above all ride it! if you ever come near mojave In nearly half a century of driving/riding motorcycles, I must have stopped in Mojave half a dozen times. It's a place that you pass through, on the way to Bakersfield or Lake Isabella, or the eastern Sierra Nevada range. When I was stationed at Edwards AFB in the 1960's, my shooting buddy and I used to roam all over the desert. One time he took me up Jawbone Canyon to Paiute Mountain and we stopped at a place that must be Claraville now. There was an old general store up there and we asked the old man who was running it if we could get out of the mountains by heading south on the road behind the store. He advised against it, saying, "That's a jeep road, your car won't make it." But, it was all downhill and I had to back the car up twice to make some of the tight switchbacks. The road came out in Walker basin or on Caliente Bodfish Rd, I don't know which, but it was an adventure getting up into the Paiute mountains. >or death valley, i'll show you >the most beautiful places on the planet. riding in death valley is awesome and >not at all unsafe despite the name. you don't ride during the day in >june-september, but the rest of the year is fine. If I was headed up 395 and I got to the Death Valley cutoff, I would pass it by and keep going towards Lone Pine, Bishop, Mammoth, June Lake, Bridgeport, etc. I've been to Death Valley four or five times and it's not as beautiful as the Sierras. |
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